NCAA Coach Greg Clink Speaks on Building Championship Culture at Chico State Univ.

We sit down with former Chico State head coach Greg Clink to unpack what “culture” really means when you have to live it every day. We dig into how standards are built through recruiting, repetition, and accountability, plus what parents can do to support athletes without burning them out. 
• Greg’s path from Bay Area player to 30 year college coach 
• Why seeing life as a bench player builds compassion 
• Turning Chico State into a national Division II program with a clear vision 
• Defining culture as daily operations and daily habits 
• Holding standards without chasing popularity 
• Recruiting really good players who are great people 
• Using peer leadership to protect the locker room 
• Making practice uncomfortable on purpose to raise the bar 
• Teaching man to man defence through repetition and rotations 
• Building a simple motion offence with clear roles and drilled habits 
• Advice for parents on motivation, burnout and the transfer portal 
• Teaching athletes to advocate for themselves with coaches like future bosses 
Before this episode gets started, please like or subscribe to this podcast. And if you feel compelled, it really would help me if you would share it with somebody who you think would enjoy it. 

Follow Greg Clink on Instagram @gregclink

Or visit his website http://gregclink.com

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Overview

SPEAKER_00 0:02

You are listening to the Mindset Forge podcast. I'm Barton Bryan, your host. Before this episode gets started, please like or subscribe to this podcast. And if you feel compelled, it really would help me if you would share it with somebody who you think would enjoy it. Today's episode is with Greg Klink. He spent 16 years as a headmen's basketball coach over at Chico State University in Northern California, where he transformed his alma mater, because he played there back in the 90s, into one of the top programs. His team won 285 games over that period, captured three CCAA titles, reached nine NCAA tournaments, won three NCAA West Region Championships, and made three Elite Eight appearances. Coach Clink is all about culture, and that's a buzzword that is used probably too much in business and teams and this and that. But he really dives into what culture means on the day-to-day practice of it, how he shapes young men into great people, and you know how he started really from the recruiting process looking for excellent people who are also good basketball players, and how that really helped him develop the program with his assisted coaches that could be so successful over that time. So enjoy this episode. It's fantastic. I think you get a lot out of it. And thanks for listening to the Mindset Forge podcast. Here we go.

Growing Up In Bay Area Basketball

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Alright, I'm here with Greg Klink. Thanks so much for being here. Uh Greg, how's your day going?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Great. I appreciate it. Happy, happy to be here. No, everything's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

I love it, man. You know, interviewing coaches, uh my I grew up playing basketball. That was my world for a long time. Uh, and I just I love I love the mindset around team sports and how it shapes young people's lives and and really can not just on the basketball court, but of course, like everything they understand about like showing up, not just as an individual individual, but as a teammate. And so I the I revel in these opportunities to speak with coaches that have a lot of experience and bring kind of their wealth of knowledge. So thank you for being on the podcast today, appreciate you having me. Thank you. All right. Well, tell us a little about you. Grew up in in the Santa Clara area, you played basketball. Um I did.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

I grew up grew up in Morgan Hill, California, born in born in Gilroy, uh, garlic capital of the world. Uh all right, very good. Yeah, my uh my mom's side of the family was uh born and raised in Gilroy, uh, lived in San Jose for a short time. Uh we moved to the Morgan Hill area back in '81 when I was about 10 years old. And uh grew up loving sports, playing soccer, baseball, basketball. Uh knew from an early age that I wanted to coach. I think I was probably about 14. 14 was about the time when I realized that my my NBA dreams were not gonna come to fruition. So uh I knew basketball was uh much earlier than most people realize. Yeah, yeah, I was a realist at a young age. Uh but uh yeah, knew I wanted to be involved in in basketball and competition and in all that. So from an early age, I knew I wanted to coach. Always thought that I wanted to be a high school basketball coach. When I went to college, I graduated from Chico State University. Uh, when I went to school there, my goal really was to become a high school basketball coach. And then uh while playing basketball at Chico State, uh had an opportunity with the coach there to start my college coaching career, and that's what I did for 30 years. So uh yeah, born in born in uh set South Santa Clara County.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Um for those of you that aren't listening from from California, this uh Santa Clara's San Francisco area, I think is the city. Yeah, well I'm about we're about 50 miles.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah, we're about 50 miles from uh south of San Francisco, is where I grew up. So that's San Jose, Santa Clara. Yeah, Bay Area, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah, but a very like at that time, yeah. I grew up in Davis, which is you know more Sacramento area, but we we were aware of the San Francisco basketball scene, and I would go to like the Donovan Blythe like invitational basketball camp in San Francisco and just get smoked by all these incredible athletes from from all over north northern California. But so there was there was a vibe that like things were going on in Sam in San Francisco.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, that you know, bat basketball in the Bay Area in the 80s, uh you know, still good, but it was it was a a neat time. Um it was one of those things where you you played in a lot of different leagues out outside of your high school basketball season. I remember driving up to San Jose in the spring, uh playing in in spring league up there, uh, but a lot really a lot of good players. Um, obviously before the the internet uh exploded. So uh well and before AAU.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

So it just is all like kind of gotta find the camps, you gotta find the leagues, you know, where other better players are playing to kind of see.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah, the open gyms. I remember I went to junior college uh at Gavlin College before I went to Chico State, and I remember driving up to De Anza College and places just to find open gyms, you know, where the best players in the Bay Area. You had guys from Stanford and San Jose State and USF and all these places where they'd all kind of converge uh on certain nights in certain gyms. So really uh, you know, fun to seek out trying to find the better players in the area to play against. And yeah, uh, so yeah, it was it was it was good.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

That's a similar thing to Davis. You know, you went to Hickey Gym at as a high school student. You just got to like fight for your life and like building the city.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

You and I talked before the uh before we we started this, but spent uh time as an assistant coach at UC Davis, and our office was in Hickey Gym. So many, many hours uh uh in Hickey gym, working guys out, practice. Uh yeah, it's still still there, still there. I've been doing it.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

It's probably been upgraded a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

It has, it actually has, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

It's a bit rough back in the late 80s.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

A few years ago when I was still coaching at Chico State, we we had a scrimmage. We went down to scrimmage UC Davis and we scrimmaged in Hickey Gym, and I was uh pleasantly surprised that there was a new floor and uh walls had been painted, you know, because the people that don't realize uh that's an old gym. That that thing has been around there a long time.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

It sounds like it's from the you know, the Hoosiers, which Hickey Gym is like this hickory, like old school, but it it had that feel too. It felt like it was something from the 50s that was built, and oh yeah, we've been using ever since. Well, yeah, yeah, you know, that's so you know, under you know, you said 14, you kind of knew that like MBA dreams might not be coming to fruition, but that you could coach that that might be a thing for you. And I I I wish more kids thought that way. You know, I have a son who loves basketball, wants to watch highlights and you know Lakers games and all that. Um you know, he doesn't practice enough for me to really believe that like we've got huge aspirations of but I'm like, man, lawyer? An agent? That's a great job. Like, how many great opportunities are there in the space of like professional basketball if you started early and had a goal? But as a as a young player, you know, and when you went to college, you know, and got to Chico State, it's a division two school, so you there I don't know if there's ever been I tried to find if there's ever been a Chico State graduate who's gone to the NBA. I could not find there's some that played like G League stuff and maybe overseas, but but not yeah. So there so you kind of know that there's an endpoint at the end of college.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah. What is it about Go ahead, go ahead. Go no, go I'll finish. I'll go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, I was gonna say, what is it about kind of being you know, no, you know, it's very un it's very unusual that an elite player ends up becoming a really good coach. You know, it's more likely that a that a good player who kind of scrapped and got on the team and like being you know, like a that ends up like understanding or having the the capacity to coach very different levels and and bring people up. What do you think that is and or for at least for you, why is that why is that the case for you?

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Yeah, I I I think you're I think you're right in in a lot of ways. Uh you know, I look at it from from my standpoint. I was I was a good high school basketball player, I was a good junior college player. Notice I didn't say great, I never was great. Um I got to Chico State, I wasn't recruited. I basically picked up the phone one day and called Puck Smith, who was the head coach and told him I was coming to town to visit some friends and would love to meet him. He met me on a Saturday and told me when tryouts were. So I wasn't recruited, uh, definitely had to work to even get on the team. Uh, did not play a lot during my Chico State career, um, but had an amazing experience. And I think that part of the reason that you find coaches, you know, successful coaches that weren't great players, and there are definitely successful coaches that were great players. Um, but I think one of the things, one of the advantages I had with not being a great player was that I could see it from different perspectives, right? I I could see uh I could see it from the the starter's perspective, but I also had the ability to know what that guy that's maybe the 11th, 12th, 13th man on the team is seeing. And I think there's some compassion that comes along with that, knowing what those guys on the end of the bench are going through, um, how to still make them feel valued, how to define and give them a role that actually uh means something. Um so I think that that's part of it. You know, I think that I've always had the perspective of knowing what those guys, you know, the the starters and and leading scorers, you know, that that's it it's a hard job, but that's an easy role to accept. But knowing what those guys on the end of the bench are going through and knowing what they need to hear, maybe on a daily basis or a weekly basis, and and valuing them, um, I think that unless you've been in that role, it's hard to really know what those guys are going through.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Seeing The Game From The Bench

SPEAKER_00 10:09

And I you know, so let's let's talk about coaching because you spent yeah, you know, you you you started as an assistant coach, you move around, you were at UC Davis for a while, and then you got the opportunity to go to Chico State and coach there from what looks like uh 2008 to about 2024. Is that yeah timeline left? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah, seven, I 16 seasons, you know, 17 years. COVID, we didn't have a season, but 16 seasons, 17 years. Uh coached for 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

80 games, one like you know, quite a record.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yeah, we had a great run. Um, it was an amazing experience. Uh as I said, I I went to Chico State, played at Chico State. Uh when I got back to Chico State as the head coach in 2008, uh, you know, times were different. When I was playing there, it was a non-scholarship school in the only non-scholarship conference, division two conference in the country. When I got back in 2008 to coach, uh moved into the California Collegiate Athletic Association, scholarship-based. Um so the program definitely looked different in terms of uh funding and level and all that. But uh really when I got there in 2008, knew that you know it needed uh, you know, needed some culture change in terms of uh, you know, just how we operated and trying to compete in a in a higher league with very limited scholarships was a challenge. So trying to find ways to to be able to do that, and that's one thing we were we were successful doing.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

So talk about that, you know, coming on to as a as a head coach, kind of assessing the situation, what what what what what's working well, what's not working well, how you know recruiting's a big part of that, like building

Rebuilding Chico State From Scratch

SPEAKER_00 11:54

that culture. What what were some of the levers you you really started to kind of like address uh you know right off the bat with as a coach?

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Yeah, well, you know, when I took over the program in two 2008, uh it wasn't in a great state in terms of the talent level. Um, they had had a couple wit losing seasons, but I knew that there was potential there. And one of the things, one of the disadvantages that the program had at that time is that it was thrown into a scholarship conference um with very limited resources. And so I knew that raising scholarship money was something that needed to be done in order to attract the type of talent that we needed to attract. But just culturally, just changing uh, you know, how we operated, how we uh how we you know, how hard we worked, uh finding guys that were really about their educations and guys that really wanted to work hard, that wanted to be a part of something uh special. Um you know, I was there at a time as a player when the program was in an amazing state. I'd won four conference championships. And so I anyway, my I knew that there was potential in the program, and I knew that we could build something. Uh, I'd be lying if I said that I ever thought that we would accomplish what we accomplished. You know, we we won at a really high level and turned the program into one of the premier Division II programs in the country. Um, I don't know if you would have asked me in 2008 if that was a possibility, if I I would have told you it was. Uh, but I don't know if I realistically would have believed that. Um we won our first conference championship in in four years, which happened a lot faster than I ever dreamed possible. And um, you know, we accomplished a lot more after that, but it really was about changing uh changing the culture, uh, you know, finding guys that really wanted to be a part of something special, um, holding them accountable for the vision of the program. I had great assistants that helped me do that, uh, but it was a it was a definite uh situation where we had to really, you know, make make guys believe, make the community believe that this could be, you know, that we could win at a high level, and then really, you know, formulating that vision and holding people accountable for that vision and and it it took off.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah.

Culture Means Daily Operations

SPEAKER_00 14:15

I think culture, at least nowadays, is kind of an overused corporate term, even you know, I think it probably came out of of sports and things like that, but I think it's it's been overused and I think can get a little like uh just saccharine in terms of what does that mean? Like what okay guys, we're we're happy, you know, is are we high-fiving more? Are we you know, we what how do you how do you take the idea of culture and then create the daily habits that actually let that culture truly manifest in your team?

SPEAKER_02 14:46

I agree with you. I think culture is a buzzword that a lot of people use. I do believe though that every organization has culture. Yeah. Whether you whether you talk about it, preach it, teach it, you you have you either have good culture or you have bad culture. And uh I I really believe that um you know, if you're gonna have to meet the way I define culture, if I was very being very simplistic about it, culture is the way we operate on a daily basis. Okay, if I was gonna simply define this is how we operate on a daily basis, this is how we communicate with each other, it's how we treat each other, it's how we work together, all of that goes into culture. And your culture can be really good or it can be average or it can be bad. Uh, I really believed during the time when I was at Chico State, and I used to tell recruits this that I would put up our culture, the way we operated on a daily basis against any program in the country. Like we operated at a high level, we treated each other uh with respect and love and we communicated at a high level and we cooperated. It doesn't mean that we never had issues and never had problems, but we operated at a high, high level on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, on a yearly basis. And yes, we had good basketball players and good coaches, but I really believe that the reason we had so much success is because we worked together and we operated at a high level. And then you asked, how do you do that? Coming in, you know, I really believe it's about having a vision for any organization. You have to know as a leader what you want that organization to look like. And I spent 14 years as an assistant coach prior to getting the Chico State head coaching job, and I came up with a vision of what I wanted the program to look like wherever I got my opportunity. It just happened to be a Chico State. But I spent 14 years, I worked for four different head coaches as an assistant coach, and I saw a lot of great things. I saw things that I knew when I got my opportunity, I was going to implement that. And then I saw things that I looked, you know, we did, and I'm like, no, I'm gonna do that differently. Um, but you know, I formulated a vision, and then from day one, when I took over the program in 2008 at Chico State, it was really about communicating that vision to everybody involved, communicating that vision to my athletic director. This is what I want the program to look like, and here are the steps that I'm gonna take to make that a reality, right? Communicating that vision to my assistant coaches so they could help me establish it and lead it, and then communicating obviously that vision to the student athletes, the managers, the trainers. And then it's really about holding people accountable for that vision every day. And early on in my career at Chico State, I mean, I had to go to battle with it every day. I would wake up and, you know, open my eyes and I would have to mentally get myself prepared. You know, I say battle. I'd I'd go in and battle the culture every day, and I would implement things in certain areas. Here's how we're gonna practice, here's what it's gonna look like, here's how we're gonna lift weights, here's how we're gonna conduct ourselves in study hall. Uh, I mean, there's so many things that go into the makeup of an organization or a basketball program, for example. And I knew in my head what I wanted it to look like in every single one of those faucets. So then when I'd go into a situation like practice and it wasn't going like I wanted, it was like, stop, here's what it's gonna look like, here's how we're gonna operate, here's how we're gonna drill, this is the effort, this is the community, you know, and so really stopping it over and over and over again until we got the type of behavior and conduct that we wanted in all those areas, and then we go on and find ways to streamline it and make it even better. But it's really you gotta be stubborn, you know, and you gotta you gotta know what it looks like in your head, you gotta communicate what it looks like to everybody else, and then you have to hold everybody accountable for their role in making that vision become a reality.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

And you have all these kids coming from you know, 18, 19 year olds coming from all over the you know, country potentially, specifically, you know, especially probably Northern California, and they're they've all got different cultures, whether that's from their team or from their family or from their kind of social environment, and that those aren't gonna just mesh. Like you have to you have to give them your vision and you have to kind of you know, because I think people want to believe, like, oh, we're just playing basketball, guys. Everybody like that isn't yeah, it's a game, everyone knows kind of generally what to do, but how do you get them bought in and and I think it's it probably like you're talking about, just it takes that work every day, like mentally preparing, walking into the practice, like you know, knowing that there's gonna be an issue and not shying away from like addressing it. Sure. I think I think that's where coaches get, you know, they they want to be liked, they want to they want it to be good, they want it to be fun, and so they actually miss opportunities to the address the important issues when they when they show up, and then people are like, oh wait, he doesn't really care about it, he just says it.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Yeah, no, you're you're absolutely right, and I think that's a lot of a lot of times what coaches get themselves into trouble with

Recruiting Great People First

SPEAKER_02 20:03

that. Uh, I think the first piece of it, you know, how do you get guys from different walks of life to buy into a vision, right? And and for me, it's really about our recruiting philosophy. And our recruiting philosophy was you know, recruit really good players that are great people. And I'll say it again, recruit really good players that are great people. At our level, Division II, we're not gonna land a great player, right? We can land really good players, but they're they're always gonna have deficiencies. If they were great players, they'd be playing at a higher level than at our level. So we would recruit really good players that are great people. So to me, the way you, you know, people always ask, well, how do you build, you know, how do you build team chemistry? And there's a lot of different things that you can do to build team chemistry. But the first and foremost thing that I believe is that you get a group of really great people in the same room, and that's that's the start of something special, right? If you can get great people that value work ethic, that value winning, that value uh be part of something bigger than themselves, then we can communicate and we can work towards something, uh, work towards a common goal. When you recruit really talented people that maybe aren't high character or selfish, um, just out for themselves, it doesn't, to me, it doesn't matter how good you are or how talented you are, you're probably not gonna completely buy into a team concept, right? So uh I think the first part to answer your question is like we go out and get guys and we would vet them during the recruiting process. And yes, we wanted really good players, but if they weren't somebody that I believed was going to buy into the team and buy into the vision of what we were trying to accomplish, then we passed on them. And I could tell you stories about, you know, high level players that we passed on because I did not feel like they were. to be the right fit for what we wanted to do culturally. And then you talked about, you know, not being their buddy and and you know how do you hold them accountable? And I think that's the the real key. You know, I I I want to be liked, but it's more important to me to be respected. And it's more important to me that I'm honest with you and I hold you accountable. And when I say, hey, this is what we're gonna do and this is how we're gonna do it, you know, as a leader, I need to hold you accountable for that. And a lot of that's done through communication, laying expectations down, defining roles. But it's it's constant. Like it it never ends. It's not a situation where you bring someone in and you define the role and this is how it's gonna I mean it's a constant conversation with the group. It's a constant conversation with the individual, but you got to be stubborn and you got to hold him accountable for what you want to accomplish and what your vision is.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah that's that's right on and and you I think one you one bad seed you know or or you you you see this in the NBA where it's like you have one player that clearly the coach treats differently than the the people in the band and it's like how does how do you make that work? That's you know there's a kind of a sweet spot to the division two recruiting process because it's like these massive you know talents with big egos aren't necessarily in your they're you're not going after them anyway. So you're kind of looking for that I mean for lack of better terms Austin Reeves kind of like like or someone like who's just like there's something about them that's like really smart and really talented but also like you know like they they have they have certain deficiencies that keep them like in more that division two space.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Yeah and and make no mistake the guys at every level players at every level have egos you know like because you know they're their division you know we had a lot of really good division two players with huge egos uh but the thing that we would try and do in the recruiting process is it's okay to have an ego it's okay to be confident it's okay to believe in yourself but if we're gonna offer you either a scholarship or a spot on the team uh you know you I've got to believe that you're somebody that can you know put your ego on the shelf at times and sacrifice your own personal you know needs or glory for uh team glory and team accomplishments and that doesn't mean we you know never made mistakes we made mistakes and there's times where we had to fix those mistakes but uh I really believe it starts with you know vetting and and making sure that the people that you invite you know this is a privilege I looked at it like when I was coaching at Chico State it was a privilege to be a part of what we do and when we would recruit that's how it was explained. If we you know invite you to the table here this is what it's gonna look like this is how it's gonna be and sometimes we would lose recruits because I would you know I wouldn't promise them starting positions and I wouldn't promise them playing time and we lost on guys because of that sometimes but I really tried to paint the picture of what we do here is special and if you're gonna be a part of it these are the sacrifices that are going to be need to be made and if you're not willing to to do that then you probably need to go look for another place to play but uh I I really believe you know we it's not like we never dealt with issues but I really believe a lot of that is uh cleaned up during the recruiting process by who you allow you know into your organization and on your team.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

And the cleaner that vision is the clearer it is the more likely they're gonna weed themselves out if they don't want to work that hard or if they don't want to commit to the team in that way.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

And and there's a lot of peer pressure involved. So early on I would say in the first two or three years we dealt with a lot of those issues. We recruited guys that probably weren't good fits and we were trying to raise the talent level quickly and we made some mistakes but I would say probably after year three or four we had a nucleus of guys that were really about the program that really believed in the program wanted the program to be successful. And so then when we would recruit two or three or four new guys a year there was a lot of peer pressure like you know when they did something that wasn't uh in line with our culture and how we conducted ourselves oftentimes before I could even get to them another player would not no we don't do that. This is this is we do this differently here's how we do it. Now that took some time to get that but as you know I would say after years four or five when we really got going and I really felt like we were operating at a high level a lot of those issues you know with new guys coming in whether it was ego or self you know it gets corrected quickly especially when you have people in the organization people on the team that are going to handle those type of uh issues before I could even get to

When Players Police The Standards

SPEAKER_02 27:16

them.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

That's when it got special just to be honest with you is when it's like levels of a team you know like you think about I remember something you know early in my life like was this like a storming phase like when you're you're getting a team new you're trying to develop culture and everyone's kind of like you're pushing against the the new rules and ah you know and it was kind of like not comfortable and then you kind of it kind of normalizes and then there's kind of a point where it kind of gets into that transformative or like performative like where they're everyone's bought in and you don't have to be the one that says ah we don't do that like because John Johnny's stepping up going no no no hey no no no this is how we do that like teaching the youngsters like how it's I remember yeah it's a great story.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

I remember uh early on it we had a uh one of my first recruits you know we had a big recruiting class that first year uh one of the guys that we signed was a guy named Jay Flores out of he was at Jesuit high school out of Sacramento he went to Samsung I remember Jesuit yeah they always teams I ever played against yeah uh he went to Sonoma State as a freshman and then when I got the job at uh Chico State in 2008 he transferred and at that time if you transferred from division two to division two within our conference you had to sit out of here so he redshirted his first year so by the time he uh you know became a junior really so you know two years after that I remember you know one time walking in the gym before practice and we had a certain protocol of what we did when we walked into practice with a ball handling routine and a shooting routine and that was you know one of the things that we had to teach and hold guys accountable for one of those many cultural things that this is how we're gonna operate uh before practice during practice anyway I remember walking in the gym one time and immediately seeing somebody off task and just beelining it across the gym for this guy and Jay raised it he goes I got it I got it and he walks over puts his arm around this freshman walks into the corner of the gym walks him back and I don't know what he said but it was never an issue again you know and so I I remember thinking man this is this is working you know we've got guys that are believing in what we're trying to do and now they're helping me lead the deal you know so uh you're spot on with once you get uh a group you know and several of them in that group that are willing to help you hold everybody accountable it starts to get special yeah the other thing I I I believe is that you have to allow those those natural things steps to happen.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Like I think we're we we want things to be better fast as fast as like so anybody listening to this who's like you know who's trying to build a team or trying to like create better culture at work or or in whatever situation they're in like sometimes you just have to let the team kind of like just be uncomfortable for a while and like figure out and let those those rules and those those the that vision of what you want just make them uncomfortable until they're allowed to kind of like say okay this is the way it is because some of that's just time. Sometimes they're like people will dig their heels in and be like like I don't know if this is you know I don't like this and I you know and you're kind of waiting to see if coach kind of lets lets his guard down or like softens up.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Oh yeah you're absolutely right yeah it does take time and they'll test you right they'll test you I can remember I I'm laughing as you're talking about this when you say uncomfortable right in those first especially that first year that second year it was uncomfortable it was it was a a very uncomfortable thing and I'm laughing because my first assistant that worked with me he his name's Gus Arginal he was with me I coached him at UC Davis he came on and was my head assistant at Chico State for three years. He's now the head coach at UC Riverside uh but I remember I've laughed because I have memories when you said uncomfortable I can remember I don't even know what the issue was uh some basketball related issue and I remember texting the team and telling them we're this is code red today code red and we took red pieces of paper and we started plastering them over the locker room over the office door and the guys didn't know what the hell to think right they're like code red what does code red mean you know we were trying to purposely shake things up make guys uncomfortable get guys on edge so that when they walked in the gym that day that week they knew it was go time right but we would try and find little things like that uh to shake things up make things uncomfortable um but that's really how we we established it right we went in there every day guns blazing and you know it was fun it was hard um but it was it was like let's shake this tree and let's see who sticks and it's not going to be for everybody and what we do here is hard and we we had guys that were in the program when I took over that after a year of this they didn't want any part of it you know they didn't want the time commitment they didn't want uh the level of work ethic that we were demanding they didn't want the academic uh requirements that we were putting on them you know so we you know you have to like I said shake the tree and and let some of them move on and then go out and try and find the ones that wanted to be a part of that.

Teaching Defense Then Teaching Offense

SPEAKER_00 32:35

But yeah it wasn't it was an uncomfortable deal uh a lot of the time especially early on all right so like give me the give me the like perspective I mean are you a flex guy are you a uh triangle guy no what what's uh you know you played in the late 80s in high school and in early 90s in college and then you've seen a transformation of the game you know in terms of like how we run offense and pick and roll and all the things that you kind of see more and more in like the NBA in college like what what seemed to work for your guys and like your coaching style?

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah that's a great question. So I I uh from day one I was always a primarily man-to-man defensive coach right I I really preached defense uh man-to-man defense that's not to say we never played zone we did um but we were primarily a half court man-to-man team tough physical um and I always had a system for how I taught defense it was repetition teaching rotations day after day after day after day to where they just became natural right so that was really what we did from 2008 to 2024 on the defensive side of the ball offensively I was searching I was searching early on in my career to find something that I felt comfortable teaching uh something that fit our program and so we tried different we tried you know running a shuffle offense we tried uh running you know half court sets every time down um different formations uh so I I was experimenting and one of the things that uh really hit home with me was probably in year five or six when our offense really started to take off we started to develop a system for teaching motion offense like we did for defense you know and I was I think one of the mistakes I made early on in my head coaching career at Chico State offensively is that I would you know we'd be in practice and we'd be on you know be coaching the offense and I'd stop it and I would look at you and I'd say hey you know you you passed it here what are your your options what are your options your options were screening away your options were basket cutting like what do you think if and that's you know I was trying to get you to think the game and I realized that there were probably only one or two guys on my team that that really thought the game like I thought the game. So I scrapped that way of teaching and I put in a four out one in motion offense and we repped we repped the offense like we repped the defense. I did not give them uh situations where they had to think defensively you know and I know that sounds funny and there obviously was you you it's it's like it's habits.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

There's only a couple you know you think about like the basketball IQ it's like there's only a couple kids that are going to like have that kind of improvisational ability to be like make the right play when there's like oh sh that's the play like you know and other kids you have to be able to like teach them a system that like okay I pass the ball I'm screening here I I you know then I roll to the basket and then get back in you know or some sort of flow that they can they can kind of like believe in and trust.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Yeah and and we made it very yeah we made it very simplistic. You know I worked for uh Bob Williams was the coach at UC Davis uh my first stint there in 96-97 and he the next year I was a junior college coach he went on to win the Division II national championship at UC Davis with no scholarships. Then he took over UC Santa Barbara and I was fortunate enough he hired me to be an assistant at Santa Barbara I was there for two years and he's the one that told me that I I remember talking to him I would always talk basketball with him he's such a great basketball mind and I was like why can't our guys you know it's at Santa Barbara pick up that he goes there and he told me there's only maybe one or two guys on the team that have an have a basketball IQ like we have basketball IQs. And that was so true. And so when I got to Chico State it took me a few years to implement a system and teach it the way the same way we taught defense. We taught habits defensively when you're put in this situation you've drilled it so many times that instincts take over right and you rotate probably the right way most of the time offensively it was it was a four out one in ball screen motion offense. So if you were a perimeter player unless you're a power forward you never screened you passed and you cut. But me simply telling you that when you pass it you need to cut is not enough. We would spend time every single day passing and cutting and we would do it over we'd move from one two minute drill to the next two minute drill and we would rep these habits that you need to have in order to play this offense. And so once we did that and I figured it out it was more just reacting and playing and we kept it simplistic and we did have sets that we would run and plays that we would run but a majority what we did was a four out one in ball screen motion offense. It gave our guys a lot of freedom it you know it was great for we had bigs that could pick and pop and step out and shoot threes it was great for that it spread the floor so for the probably the last 12 13 years of my career that's what we primarily ran.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yeah I think it's a really interesting understanding of people you know kids I mean in this young man in this situation but I think people in general like I think we want to believe that people want kind of the freedom to make their own choices but I think what people really thrive in is structure. And I think that that start you know it starts with practices and how they look and you know the kids but also then you're talking about office and Diva just run it, run it, run it. You know, like much like Phil Jackson would you know just hammer the uh you know the triangle and everyone's like oh the triangle doesn't work anymore it's like well if you have but but you it requires very talented minds of that it requires a Jordan or a Kobe or you know people that understand how to to be able to read the floor and react and all that kind of stuff. And that's probably you know it's interesting I watch a lot of MBA it's kind of amazing that there's there's clearly people on the floor that have that just kind of need to play a very specific role I was going to say that yeah like and like they don't quite get it the way you know I mean LeBron or somebody like who kind of like sees everything and like you know there's there's just there's always levels even at the highest level to like what people understand what's going on. And I think as a coach you have to figure that out with your team. And maybe was there ever a time where your team was just kind of like you just realized like oh this group is kind of at another level and I can give them a little bit more of that freedom.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Yeah well it's really about role definition. You know like we ran a ball screen motion offense. That doesn't mean that every player on our team when they had the ball in their hand was going to come off a ball screen right there really we we would we would define roles like you might you might be somebody that you know has 100% freedom to put the ball on the floor come off ball screens uh create uh but then we'd have other guys on our team and we called them exchangers right if you're an exchanger your job is to maybe run to the top of the key catch it swing it to the other side and basket cut or you catch the ball on the wing and your job is to power dribble into a a guy that is a you know creator. So there were definite rules and our bigs the ones that were actually setting the ball screens they knew I told them you're you can set ball screens for Jalen Robert and Corey but you're not going to set ball screens for Bill Tom and Steve right we're not gonna do that. And so there was a lot of freedom there was structure in our offense there was a lot of freedom in our offense for certain guys.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

The probability of it of a ball screen action with one of those could be disaster could be disaster that's not their that's not their their specialty they're they're not in that pick and roll like you know like they don't have to just like if you had a if you had a big guy that that is responsible for setting the ball screen but can't shoot a perimeter jump shot he's not going to pop that thing right uh so yeah we definitely defined roles and there were certain guys that had more freedom than others uh just like you're talking about the triangle offense and Michael I mean Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant ran the triangle offense but there were times when they deviated from that triangle offense because they saw something that they could create and make a basket or create something for somebody else and they had the freedom.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Now there were probably other guys on that team with Michael Jordan that did not have that freedom to just play their role very and they made a lot of money doing it. And you have to you know there's value in that you can't have every like with the offense we ran we didn't necessarily want every guy coming off a ball screen you know we wanted we wanted certain guys doing it because it was more efficient.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

A lot of times it just comes down to probability. It's like who's your best option you know for for this action or like you know and as you get closer to the end of the game and the the you know the score's close and it's like you need to you need to run the play with the highest probability that the guy rolling or that that gets the screen and get you know gets an open shot is going to make it and so all those you got to factor those things in. All right now I I've got I've got a couple more big questions for you that I want to make sure uh I get in here.

What Parents Miss About Readiness

SPEAKER_00 42:36

One of them is talk to the the dad or the mom who's got a middle school, high school son or daughter who's who has visions of playing college basketball what what do you recommend just mindset wise like what should they be doing? What should they avoid doing um you know just not in like the nuts and bolts of like use go to this camp or or you know practice this exercise but like what are some things that they that somebody would want to understand about like hey I want my kid to play at the next level what are you guys looking for in like a program like yours so there there's a couple parts to that question.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

So are you you you you're asking me what advice to give to parents if their kid wants to play college basketball and then I also heard as a college coach what did I look for when recruiting right?

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Well I would say just like from your perspective right now and I know you're no longer the coach at at at Chico State so but like what are what are some things that like parents maybe m are missing with like your kids good in c in high school they they think they can you want them to play at the next level. They think they can play at the next level what are from a college poach coach's perspective, what are the things, what are the intangible things that they should understand To help them, you know, know that their kid is ready or not or or can do it.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

I think that that uh I'm gonna picket your words here for a minute because you said parents that want their kids to play college basketball. Their kids want to. That's that exactly. That's different than do your kids want to play college basketball. And if your kid really wants to play college basketball, they're going to tell you that. They're gonna tell you that by how much time do they spend out in the street shooting baskets? How much time uh do they spend at the schoolyard? Do they spend uh before school, after school working on their game? Are they asking you to uh, you know, mom, dad, can I play in this league? I want to play here, you know, like if they're seeking that out, then as a parent, and this is hard, parenting is hard because we let our own egos get in the way sometimes. Um, but you know, oftentimes, and you know this as well as I do, oftentimes parents want this more than their kid wants it. And if that's the case, then you're you're you're gonna drive a wedge between your kid, you're gonna burn your kid out. So, really, first and foremost, does your kid want this? And if your kid does, then yeah, you want to provide them the resources. You want to, you know, you want to make sure that they are playing on teams that are benefiting them. You know, they're getting as much time uh you know, working out. I I don't know that every kid needs a personal trainer, but I believe in if you have a good personal trainer, I believe in that. Like there's a lot of really good personal trainers that can help your kids' skill development, you know, making sure that they have the right strength and conditioning uh program that they're doing. Um, but first and foremost, your kid needs to want that and you need to communicate with your son or daughter. And if they're fighting back on, well, I don't want to go to that today, or I don't want to do that today, you know, then maybe it's time to back off because it's be it's become so hard, especially for high school athletes, to get opportunities to play in college right now because of the transfer portal. I really believe it's limiting the number of opportunities for kids. Um, so you know, first and foremost, your kid has to want it and they have to put the time in. And it takes, I mean, the best players that I had at our level, I mean, they loved playing basketball. They were, you know, gym rats and just constantly in the gym for hours and hours and hours. And they didn't start doing that when they got to Chico State. That's why they got to Chico State because of all that time. So I really believe as a parent, you need to, you know, let your kid tell you that they want to do this. Um, I have three sons. I have twin boys that are 22. Um, they stopped playing basketball in junior high. Um, one of them was into music. He wanted to play the guitar and sing, and and I was like, man, do it. Like, how can I support that, right? Uh, my other one wanted to be a football player. I wasn't a football player, but I supported him. And I was like, if that's what you want to do. My youngest is 20 years old. He's a college wrestler. He's uh a wrestler at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. He can't he came to me in the sixth grade, it was when he started wrestling at the junior high. And he came to me very sheepishly and and scared, and he said, Dad, I I think I'm gonna stop playing basketball. And he thought I was gonna be mad at him. And I said, Okay. And he goes, I want to I want to wrestle. And I'm like, man, I'm I'm fully supportive that that's what you want to do. And that kid loved training, he loved lifting weights. And so I was it was like, okay, what what camps can we take you to? What uh what do you need from me in terms of, you know, I took him and had a meet with our strength coach at Chico State, and the strength coach, I was just trying to find him resources that was gonna help his athletic career. And he ate it up. But that was the kid that told me this is what I want to do, and I want to do it at the college level. And so part of me was getting out of his way. Part of me was trying to introduce him to people that were gonna help him, the strength coach, the the high school coach that was running the camp, uh, taking him, I remember taking him to Stanford to a clinic. You know, he he wanted that type of stuff. So it was more just me trying to find him opportunities. So if you have a kid like that, it's like find him as many good opportunities as you can. Um, you know, try not to burn them out, you know, when they're when they're when it they're putting their hand up and saying, I don't want to do this right now, then back off so that you don't uh so you don't burn them out. Um but uh that would be my advice is you know find out what they're passionate about, not what you're passionate about, what they're passionate about. And if it's basketball, try and find them as many good resources as you can uh to help them get bigger, stronger, faster, help them with their mental game, make sure they're academically setting themselves up for success so that if they are good enough, they can get into the college, um, you know, and just to try and provide them as many opportunities if that's what they want.

Teaching Athletes To Self Advocate

SPEAKER_00 49:04

That's great advice. Yeah, I think that's I mean, living in Austin, Texas, I have a new appreciation for how important football is, and you know, slightly lesser than football, baseball, and basketball, but like, you know, and the parents are insane. Yeah, and there's and it's just like everyone's so scheduled with leagues and you know, and like select teams and this and that, and like yeah, it is it's it's a it's a big deal. And so that's uh that's really good advice because I do think that these kids sometimes they don't even realize that it's like it's it's about their parents that they're that yeah that they're in this and that they're still fighting for it, and they don't know if they even love it themselves.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

You know, one of the other things that I talk to parents about, I so I what I do with part of what I do with my speaking business is I go into schools, I do coaches' workshops, I do uh student athlete presentations. I have a presentation that I talk to student athletes called Level Up. And so we talk about seven different things that will enhance your athletic experience. And a lot of times uh there are parents in the room too on some of these presentations that I do. And one of the things when I do have parents in the room that I tell them is, you know, let's let's teach our kids how to advocate for themselves. So one of the things that I talk to the student, it's like not everybody's gonna play as much as they want to play, right? There are certain times when you maybe have to accept a role. And, you know, how do you make that role better, right? And you need to advocate for yourself and you need to learn to have how to have a conversation with your coach. And so I talked to the parents about like, don't, you know, this as soon as something goes wrong for your kid, don't run to their coach, don't run to the assistant principal and fight their battles for them. Teach them how to advocate for themselves. And one of the things that I would do with my sons, and all three of them at different times would come home and either complain about playing time or, you know, and I would say, I would support them, and here's how I would support them. I would sit them down and say, okay, this is a concern you have. Let's have a conversation with your coach. And we would role play. And I would pretend I was the coach and I would teach them how to, you know, talk to their coach, coach, can I get a minute of your time? I want to know how do I expand my role? What do I need to do in practice in order to play? So that's the other piece of advice that I like to give to parents is when your son or daughter is in a situation similar to that, this is a big time learning experience. Because unless they graduate from high school and start a business, they're probably going to have a boss at some point. So this is a perfect opportunity for you to teach them how to deal with a boss because there's going to come time when maybe they don't get the promotion they want, they don't get uh the salary they want, they're not put on the product project that they want. This is a perfect opportunity to learn how to communicate that with somebody like a coach or a boss and how to advocate for yourself. So that's the other thing that I like to talk to people. Like, you know, it's okay to push your kids if your kids want to be pushed, you know, in terms of getting them, you know, more coaching or or pushing them to work harder if they want it. And then when things do go wrong and the higher levels that you compete at, things are gonna go wrong. Teach them how to advocate for themselves, teach them how to how to fight their way out of their own problems as opposed to you just running to the school and and doing that for them.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yeah, that's that's really solid too, because I agree with that. I think that it's we we are so quick to want to solve our kids' problems. And and you know, great thing about sports is it's like you either win or you lose. You either play well or you I mean, there there's a lot of gray area and everything else in life. Sports are are can be very clean in terms of like, you know, you score points, you don't, you what team wins or you don't, you make the team you don't like, and but within the construct of that, you you know, it's the ability to just you know to listen to your to your coaches, advocate for yourself with your coaches, develop connections with other people, peers in your team, and like and then grow into that. And so that that can be an example of what you know adult life looks like too if you if you use it as a testing ground for those types of things. Totally, totally, one hundred percent. All right,

Greg’s Speaking Work And Contact Info

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Greg. So uh real quick, because I I I've got to wrap up here, uh, how can people get a hold of you? I want to say in the show notes, we'll put a link to you know connecting with you, uh, but just give us like give us a little minute on like your your speaking engagements, what you're looking for, and so we can Yeah, so so I do I do some different presentations.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

So I go in, uh I'll go into like businesses, corporations, and talk about uh culture building, you know, how to develop championship culture. And I really use 10 principles that I used to build the basketball program at Chico State, and I talk about how universal that is in terms of uh, you know, if you emphasize these 10 different things, you can develop culture, championship culture in any organization that you're a part of. I also go into schools and I do uh coaching workshops for coaches on program development, leadership, culture building, and then I go in and talk to student athletes about uh you know things to enhance. You know, we talk about communication, we talk about standards, we talk about mindset, uh relishing in your role, um, all of those things that go into enhancing your athletic experience. So I'm doing several different things and I can be reached. My email is info at Greg Clink, G-R-E-G-C-L-I-N-K.com. I've got a website, gregklink.com. Uh I'm on Instagram at Greg Clink. I'm on Facebook. Um so any of those platforms I can I can be reached.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

I love it. And you know, invitation to come out to Austin, Texas.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah. That's I've the only time I've ever been to Austin uh when I was coaching at UC Davis, uh, we played the University of Texas one time. So we stayed kind of on the outskirts, but we we drove in uh right to to the uh practice facility and gym. So I haven't seen a ton of it, but uh I hear Austin's a great place.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Yeah, come out for one of our football games. YouTube Longhorns are that's that's I mean, it made me realize because I would go to UC Davis football games when I was growing up. Then O'Brien was a big deal. You know, but it was a small that little that little stadium on on what's it Covell or something like that? It was so small. Here it's like, I mean, you feel like you're in like the gladiator coliseum room. It's just I've never been to a big time football game like that.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

I we've you know, throughout my years of coaching, we played at Texas and Duke and Louisville and some of those places. So I've seen that from a basketball standpoint, but have never been to a big time football game.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

110,000 screen people, F-16s flying over the top. It's just it's the next it's the next level. It's crazy. That's cool. That's cool. So yeah, this was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. And you know, we uh the the UC Davis connection and just the whole NorCal um, you know, coach. That's that's awesome. I mean, that's uh this has been fun for me to kind of revisit some of that stuff, and and I really appreciated all of your your you know thoughts on culture and building a team, but that specifically about like kids and and advocating, learning had them learning to advocate. I think that's a nice piece that I haven't heard said quite that way before. Well, thank you. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Well, I appreciate it's great to speak to you and uh appreciate the opportunity to be here. So it's all stuff I love talking about, so I appreciate it.