Marketing Specialist Howard Schaffer talks Longevity, Business, and following the Data vs. Ego

We sit down with marketing leader Howard Schaefer to unpack what long-term success looks like when you trade hype for consistency, relationships, and real measurement. We connect lessons from Sears and the CMO seat to parenting, fitness, and longevity so you can make better decisions with less ego and more truth. 
• childhood nicknames and the moment “Howie” becomes “Howard” at work 
• Sears at its peak and what sports apparel teaches about customer behaviour 
• relationship building as a career advantage and a leadership habit 
• choosing curiosity over competition to learn faster 
• data-driven decision making and why regional performance changes everything 
• avoiding ego-led calls and using the right metrics for the goal 
• hockey as a lifelong training ground for teamwork and resilience 
• parenting around sports without turning it into pressure or debt 
• why unstructured pickup play matters for joy and skill 
• the 529 reminder and playing the odds with money and expectations 
• shifting from heavy cardio to strength training for longevity 
• setbacks, injury risk, and the value of walking as a baseline habit 
• the metrics Howard watches most: sleep, HRV and training zones, bloodwork 
Listeners can Follow Howard Schaffer on LInkedin

Transcript

Welcome And Childhood Nicknames

SPEAKER_02 0:03

You are listening to the Mindset Forge podcast. I'm Barton Brian, your host. Welcome back to another episode. Today I've got an awesome interview. Today's guest is someone who represents what long-term success actually looks like. Not quick wins, not a bunch of hype, but decades of consistent execution at the highest level. I'm joined by Howard Schaefer, a seasoned marketing executive of over 30 years of experience building, scaling, and leading growth across multiple industries. Howard's career started in a structured corporate environment at Sears where he learned the fundamentals of business analytics, customer behavior, and operational discipline. From there, he steadily climbed into leadership roles, eventually becoming the CMO of both Camp Gladiator and Restore Hyperwellness. So buckle up, get ready for an awesome interview with Howard Schaefer. All right, here I am with Howard Schaefer. How are you doing today, Howard?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Doing great, thanks. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Great. I I appreciate you being on. I wanted to ask you, uh, not in the notes, but did you have a nickname as a kid? Howie the Howlett Howlitzer. What was the nickname for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

It was Howie, and then it became Duck for some reason because uh Howard the Duck. Oh, okay. Um, and and now I'm actually both names. Some people call me Howie, and some people call me Howard.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

I've got a great story on that if you want to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

I'd love to hear it. Let's go. Jump right in.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So I was at Sears. Uh, it was my first job. I got moved to corporate in Chicago. And my first boss, um, and I was Howie at the time, she looked at me and she said, CEOs are not Howie's, they're Howards. And she goes, Going forward, I'm calling you Howard. Since that date, for business and professional purposes, I was always named Howard. Um, and that's why my family still calls me Howie, and all my uh employees, work people, et cetera, always call me Howard.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Got it. That makes perfect sense. And I, you know, that's Howie feels like we're friends, and Howard feels like you're my boss, right? Like Yeah, sure. That's great. All

Sears Lessons From Sports Apparel

SPEAKER_02 2:14

right. Well, let's start with uh with Sears. I, you know, this is a thing that I learned about you, you know, since we know each other from a couple of uh recent um situations that you and I have kind of been a part of together. But I didn't realize you worked for Sears um so many years ago and you were part of the kind of the brand, the sports team brand division. And tell me about that and like what was exciting about that and and maybe some things that you learned just being being at that uh at Sears at that time.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah, it was um it was like Sears at their prime. They were they were doing extremely well from a business perspective. And I was, I was on the team apparel team, as you mentioned. So we were buying t-shirts, hats, sweatshirts, jackets. I'm sure you remember the the old starter jacket back in the day. Um and they were actually one of the largest sellers of all those different products, and it was during the the 90s, early 90s, uh the heyday of the Chicago Bulls, too. So it was a ton of fun buying uh apparel for all these amazing teams. Not only did I get to kind of buy, I got to be really involved um with uh the NHL, the NBA, the MLB, uh, NCAA, etc. Part of that was also going to games. Um, so I've been to every space, every major sporting event, like the championship that you can imagine, the Super Bowl, MLB World Series, the NHL Stanley Cup, um, NBA finals, which I went to many, many times. Um, so a lot, a lot of fun, but I also kind of learned how at a very early age, um, kind of the importance of socializing in business is just really important, creating relationships like we have done through the years, um, and just the importance of just, you know, always being present, always being a conversationalist, if you will, and um, and also like having fun while you're doing it and being very passionate about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, I would imagine that, and I know you have a um passion for hockey and playing hockey growing up and that kind of thing, but like just being somebody who loves sports and just you know, and and to have that job and be able to go to these games. And, you know, if you don't, if you don't have the ability to kind of just shoot the shoot the shit with somebody about hockey or football or basketball or whatever, like I feel like that's an in that that impedes your ability to kind of build relationships and and you know and use that social aspect of of the job. But I think I think if you're maybe in a specific like a field of technology where you can kind of just you know be very singularly focused, that that might not be necessary, but in most things you're doing, especially in the marketing space, uh, you gotta have that that ability. Is that something that you were you somebody grow growing up just that just had a gift of the gab, or were you did that something you learned and kind of developed as you got older?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah, I mean, as a kid, I was actually a little more of a goofball. Okay. Um, I was kind of, you know, at times a class clown. And I definitely matured um in college and then especially after my first job, um, and I like you know, I mentioned, you know, Sears, I was working at um in the field at Sears, and I went through their national training program. And part of that, like you mature very quickly, like you develop into kind of more of a coming out of college into this kind of professional person. And I I, you know, quickly realized like it was important to build relationships along the way and don't view everyone as competition because I think too many people in business environments try to look at everyone as competition. I kind of looked at them and go, how do I learn from these people? How do I help them and really try to enjoy conversation with people so I can either help them based on the knowledge I have or learn from them based on the knowledge they have.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Yeah, and that that sounds like a guy who's not driven by ego.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Yeah, yes. I um I've never really, I don't think thing someone that has a big ego. Um, because I think that just yeah, it gets you in trouble. Like no one wants someone that's got a big ego.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

But it's kind of like, you know, you it's funny you like watch these movies, Wolf of Wall Street or whatever, just these like like move these movies about business or about entrepreneurship. And it's oftentimes it's just like bravado ego, like like just big vision, but also like pig headed, like just egomaniac who's just like charging ahead and like it it sells well on screen, but I think in the in the real world, in the day-to-day, that's that you know, you need some subtle, you need to be able to win people over and and build build more compromises and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah, I mean, I think you have to be like really conscious, whether it's in business, making friends, around family, of like not always dominating the conversation, because you know, people don't want to just hear you talk all the time. And I I've just, I mean, I've really enjoyed learning about people and um understanding who they are. And it's kind of shaped really kind of who I am now as an adult. Um, and I've always found that like learning about people and really trying to dig deep into people's personalities, into their background, you know, it's kind of fun to learn certain nuggets about people. Um, you do definitely get a deeper relationship with them. You know, there's a ton of data on that, there's a ton of books on that. And it's not only frequency, um, you know, that that helps divide, uh helps grow relationships, meaning how frequently you are together, but also just being conscious in the moment, asking questions, learning about them. And I, you know, I've always found, and that's where like you see the most successful salespeople, it's also like remembering and memorizing bits and pieces about people. So when you're with them again, you can ask about your daughter, your you know, business, etc.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Yeah. Well, and and the I remember this that you know, we met when you and I both worked with Camp Gladiator, and you know, you you and I didn't have any direct reason to specifically like know each other or get to know each other, but I always felt like you and my memory serves you really took the the time to like get to know me and like and ask me questions. You probably heard something about me that you asked about, and it just was so easy to talk to you. And every time we'd have like a corporate event or like a leadership event, you and I were there and we'd like break bread and have a little lunch together and check in. How's how's you know, how's your workout thing going? What do you got going on? How many miles you running and that kind of stuff? And you know, it was just it was one of those things where it's like there was no benefit to you to know me more than you than than you had to, but it just seemed to be like the natural way that you immerse yourself in an organization. And so uh not to not to overplay this story, but like it's it's it's a it was a clear example of how what you've probably been doing over the last 30 years that's helped helped you fit and and make inroads into you know joining an organization like that one.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I do. I mean, I think it's I think it's really important for people to sometimes think about how they're connecting with people and are they rubbing them the wrong way. Um, because it does, right? Like it, you know, building relationships doesn't matter what level, where you are. Um, I think you can always find uh fun topics, interesting topics, and things to learn about from other people. Yeah.

Data Beats Opinions In Marketing

SPEAKER_02 9:47

But talk about hard lessons, you know. I mean, obviously in a in a 30 plus year career with marketing and brands and things like that, there's there's been some tough moments. Talk about maybe one or two that that that were you really figured some things out or kind of learned a different way to do things that would be like really beneficial to somebody listening.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Oh, that's a that's a big question. And I um, you know, we've had I've had a lot of aha moments in my career. Um and one of the things that I've been definitely I've learned through the years is data can data is king, right? Like really learning how to understand and use data to make decisions. And I kind of do that weirdly about everything in my life, uh, for good or bad. And that includes, you know, wellness, tracking devices, all of that. I'm constantly engaging in the data to um to really just help my mindset where I want to go and et cetera. And on the on the business side, um, you know, I learned very early on what you were mentioning the Sears days, um, the importance of seeing how the t-shirts we would buy, um, how they performed, and then based on that, reordering them. And a lot of these were you know, and it was amazing. You know, Sears had over 800 stores back in the day when I worked there, and we would ship product to all 800 stores. And it was unbelievable how different, especially with sports teams, they would perform. Just regionally, you know, yeah, just even locally. Like, and I'll give the example like the Green Bay Packers, which small market Wisconsin, right? Especially Green Bay, Wisp, Wisconsin and Milwaukee. They're not large cities with large populations. But we joke that, like, for every sweatshirt we we we shipped there, everyone must have like two and three of them. Because I feel felt like we sold more sweatshirts than there were people. Yeah, but then you have markets like Los Angeles as an example. They didn't, they never cared about sports. Like we would ship them sweatshirts, t-shirts, etc. It would sit, no one cared.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

So you really, I really looked Lakers, like even Lakers or the LA Kings, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, just so it does show, and this was like really early on in my career. Um, you know, this was a couple of years out of college, how important data drove decisions. And I think that just helped guide me throughout my career. Um, you know, and especially when data became more available with online and technology getting better through the years. Um, and I really tried not to have an opinion, and I really tried to use data to make the decision. Um, as we know, everyone's got an opinion.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Uh, and it kind of goes back to that ego thing of I tried not to uh, you know, make decisions using my ego, um, using my opinion, and really trying to drive it through data.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I mean, it's it sometimes it just feels really good to believe something that's not true, like that the data doesn't support, but you're like, no, I'm going all the way with this one. Like I feel it's like, it's like the the I mean, just from a sports reference, like when you know your team's not good enough to win the championship, what you just believe, you're like, maybe the stars will align and the other team will just all get injured and they'll make it. Yeah. Um I'm a I'm a I'm a um Lakers fan, and just that's happening right now. Like Luca's out, LeBron's dragging this team through the playoffs, OKC is just way too good. And I'm just like, well, something could happen. Like, no, we're we're got we're good with that. Pick your vacation spot, LeBron. You're about to go on vacation. But you know, uh so I'm not gonna bet on them, but I'm just gonna keep hoping that that like a miracle opens up. But uh, but yeah, yeah, it's it's and that especially around sports or or things that you're passionate about too. Like, I think you get a lot of people in business that are especially in in companies that are startups or that are that are just growing very quickly, and you get very passionate people and still being able to like find what the number like what is the truth? What is that what are the numbers telling us and going from there?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

And something I've really seen over the last five, 10 years, um people don't always use the right metrics, right? And and it's important both in business and even health and wellness, right? And I'm sure you know, there's a lot of discussions we can have about, you know, whether it's you're doing weights and you shouldn't be doing 20 reps of something, you know. Um, and I think there's just a lot around um using the right data for for like what you're trying to accomplish that's just so, so important. And it's it streams through everything.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah. Yeah, I think that well, that may, you know, as we when we talk about wellness and your journey at this point and and where you're headed, I think we can circle back to wearables and tracking and data and all that kind of stuff, because I think that's super important. Because I have conversations with people all the time in the gym, and I'm like, well, I'm in here six days a week, and I'm like, are you getting stronger? Have you gained muscle? Are you tracking it? Yeah, how do you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh, so okay, let's go back. Let's

Hockey And The Team Mindset

SPEAKER_02 15:10

go back. Um growing up now. You grew up in kind of the uh Michigan area, correct? Uh Midwest, Chicago, yeah. Chicago, okay. Uh and you're a few years older than me. You got into ice skating, or not sorry, not ice skating, sorry, hockey.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Uh yeah, that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Maybe you ice skated too, but uh hockey was was would seem to be your your sport of choice. Uh why hockey? Why not, you know, I mean, Jordan was in the Bulls. Why weren't you in the MBA, you know, pursuing uh dreams of the NBA?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

You know what? Well, through a couple of things. One, I do love all sports, and I will play any sport. I am one of those uh you know, male junkies that will literally play any sport. If you say, let's go play flag football, I'll go play. And throughout my teens and twenties, I really did play everything flag football, basketball, softball, you name it. I played it. I really did. I just definitely have a competitive element for me, and I love you know fitness. And I found every sport you can enjoy fitness while you do it. Um, hockey is one of those. Um started playing when I was six and have just played for 50 years now. I'm 56 now. I've literally played hockey off and on my whole life for 50 years. And I find it to be um the most rewarding, the hardest from a fitness level, to be honest. I think it's one of the hardest sports out there. Um, and I just, you know, there's nothing better um than the locker room. And there's just something that that's just so fun about it. And, you know, even today, watching hockey, it's just so much more of an enjoyable sport to me than basketball. I've kind of stopped watching basketball through the years. I think there's too much traveling, too much fake fouls, like you name it.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Four steps is traveling. What?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yes, yeah. The Eurostep has become like some other form of step anymore. Yeah. But yeah, hockey to me is is is the toughest. And I I love the players too. There's just something about them. None of them make near the money that these basketball players make or these football players make, or baseball players make. And I don't know, there's there's just something about the passion that they have for the sport and less about the money that just really allows me to enjoy it more.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah, that's awesome. Um what is it about team sports for you that just like has maybe informed the way, you know, I'm we just talked about being a good, you know, a good employee or like, you know, collaborating with people, but like is that something that you know you talk you kind of listed off a bunch of team sports instead of like individual sports like wrestling or track and field or whatever? Like so what what was the team sport element that really worked for you?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Yeah, it's a great question. I um I think just growing up in an era that I did, you know, it was how you started friendships and building blocks. And I think being somewhat of a social kid, I preferred those. Um, I think those single sports are also super valuable for people. Um, and I have a lot of uh admiration for people that can play those individual sports because you do. It's like, you know, it's your own fault if you don't win, right? So there is just there's something to it from a mental um standpoint there. But I've always loved the just you know being around other people, being around a team, having the same goal, working together, you know, and it's funny like you were headed towards that way, Bart, like which is from a sports standpoint, I kind of feel that same way at work. And um, you know, and I do, I talk about it all the time. Team, we're in it together, we work together. Um, and I try not to be a GM that sits up on the box box. I really try to be what I kind of call a player coach, which is not as much a thing anymore, but it used to be back in the 60s and 70s. Yeah, yeah, which is cool, right? Like it should be a thing. Um, you know, and and I I've I've kind of still tried to do that today where I really try to be more of a player coach and try to be more hands-on with my employees and not uh not someone that's kind of up on the uh in the box, you know, coaching from above.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah. In the dark room with your cigar.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Like the natural. I always think of the natural, the guy in the butt in like the dark room, just like trying trying to get the team to lose. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's that's interesting. And you have you have kids that are that are athletes, one who just graduated as it call high school recently in water polo.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, I've uh one I have a sophomore in college now, and one just graduated the way to college. And yeah, okay. I think you know, like many kids, they grow up in the sports world. Um, and they were they were both very good athletes. And I I realized very early my daughter was in seventh grade and she was on this traveling AU basketball team. And of course, I was extremely involved. Um, and you know, I always did the books with her, like I would her, I was the I was the team's bookkeeper, um, which meant you set up at the table and you kept the books, and the refs would, you know, make sure you were going along, keeping track of files, etc. And I went to a game in Oklahoma City and I was sitting next to a very large gentleman, and uh we were playing their team, and it was in a tournament. And um, I realized very early uh in this process that um a lot of the athletes that were on the court were also parents of former athletes. And this individual happened to play professional sports and um was probably 6'5, 250, very large, very fit. As far as you know, I'm about 5'10, weigh about 170 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

And when he told me, yeah, he's a former NFL player and et cetera, I learned very early that the concept of my daughter or son playing at a high level in sports was probably not gonna happen just because of genes alone. Like it just isn't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

So I always I don't know how tall your wife is, she could be six, three, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

I mean, there was she's tall, she's 5'10, but like yeah, it just wasn't gonna happen. And I realized very early on I only wanted them to play because they loved it and they were passionate about it, and it kept them fit, and it was actually good for their mental well-being because of the team camaraderie, right? Like junior high and high school are really hard for kids, but I think if they find a niche, play a sport, can play it well, and can work with a team, it you know, it builds a lot of friendships, it builds a lot of um opportunities for them in the future.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

I think purpose too, like I my kid is sixth grade, about to be seventh next year with some. Stor sports start off. So so he's not quite there yet. But I just think he's in theater, he's in like the green technology program. He's and he's guided. And I think it's a really it's something that I did not have in middle school. Like there was no guidance. It was just like I played basketball, thank God. I was completely like clueless what I was doing. Nobody was telling me what to do. I was just like, but like, yeah, there seems to be like a purpose and guidance when you're gonna play football or basketball. Like the co you know, there was like a coach uh meeting with all the coaches and the parents of the sixth graders who are gonna play sports in seventh grade. And it was all about like you know, the guidance of it. They're all gonna be in this specific athletic uh class where you do strength training for football and then basketball. And it's just you know, it's different from just kind of like I just send my kid on the bus and they don't really know what they're doing. Yeah. And I think that's hard. I think that it's there's there's another there's that other layer of just like feeling like you're you're on the right, you're in the right, you're going in the right direction, both as parents and probably as kids.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah.

unknown 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

The other I, you know, one thing I learned early on too is these parents are almost too passionate about their child's kind of opportunity to play in sports.

unknown 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

And seeing what parents were spending on their kids, no, and knowing that they probably couldn't afford it. And I would remind them, I'm like, the odds of your kid playing in college, it's the 1% of the 1%, just as a reminder, like that's the data. And I always kind of felt that was really important. And I'd see these parents spending $300 on a bat, spending hundreds of dollars for an hour of you know, some you know, uh former athlete's time. And I'm like, why don't you take all that money and put it in a 529? I would tell parents that all the time because I just I felt like there was just so many much, you know, more important things to spend your money on, and also just not putting that pressure. Now, I will say as a parent and being active, I played more basketball with my daughter than I can remember. My shoulders still a mess from throwing baseballs to my son. Um, you know, it I think you can be very involved and very active, but I think you can set those, you know, kind of boundaries of not being crazy.

unknown 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

And um, I think it's just not good for the kid long term from a sports standpoint, and just save your money and put it in a 529 for college and you know, go that route.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Following the numbers. Well,

Youth Sports Pressure And Smart Money

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I I love this. And so I have a question because you and I grew up, you know, 80s. And I I learned to play basketball by going and just playing basketball, not being in a league, not in a camp. Like it just played. And then we'd go to the park and we'd play with people you didn't know, and one guy was a jerk, and this, you know, and there was that one guy who's like the best guy at you know, Chestnut Park, and you always wanted to be better than him. But like my son doesn't play basketball in any way that's not organized. And I'm concerned that what it, you know, not for him in general, but like just peep like kids in general. Everything is like refereed, parents watching, coaches screaming, like like where's the improvisation? Where's the fun? Where's the joy of like find discovering a sport before it becomes stressful? And I I want your perspective on it, because you obviously had some high-level uh kids you know go through high school and and college. Like, what what's your perspective on how that maybe that concept maybe impacted or or or wasn't a big deal as you as you watched the movie?

SPEAKER_00 25:42

No, I you know what? It it's a great point. And I do, I really miss the uh the old school pickup days, right? Whether it was you know at your local place, you know, playground where you would and you'd play pickup basketball. And if you were good at free throws, you tended to play more, right? Like because you know, you shoot free throws, and the first eight to make it were the ones that played, and then the ones that didn't, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

And um, to a three-point shot, which really bothered me. I was like, that's not fair to the the to the tall guys. I've been learning the post-game for like 12 years. Now I have to shoot a three. Oh well. Go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah, no, no, it's funny. And I I haven't thought about that part about kids are way too structured these days. And you're right, everything is a game with a ref with an outcome, you know, and just not the you know, kind of old school philosophy of just playing for fun, pick up games, you know, practice. Um and I I I think one of the things that I noticed very early on with my daughter was she'd be outside pounding that basketball for hours on an end. And that's when I knew she loved it.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

And you know, this sport was important to her. If your kid is not out there on their own, doing it themselves, whatever sport it is, they don't love it, they don't have a passion for it, then it's time to move on, or just know that there's gonna come a point in time that it's time to move on.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Right. And it's it could be that they stop wanting to play or just that they're not invited to play on the team. Like one of the things. That's right. Yeah, because I think at this level, there are so many other kids that are just obsessed, right? And whether that's because their parent have put some sort of pressure on that them being, you know, there's there's multiple reasons why somebody gets kind of obsessive maybe earlier than they need to. But yeah, I I agree with that. I think there's there's just a you know, if you if you're if you see your kid just locked in and like they they just live to come home and shoot hoops or you know, catch a football with you, like then you probably got something. But if if you're uh having to schedule them into things to get them to play. No, know that it's not maybe this is not their end path, right? You know, go back to that 529. They're throwing the money in the 529. Is it 529 or 528? Say it again.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

529. Okay, and Utah, Utah, Utah is the best one, just to give a little financial advice. But yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Utah, you mean like say that again. Explain that real quick. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, there's it. So the Utah Savings Plan, which is a 529, has one of the lowest fees and some of the kind of best options. Um, but start early, right? Like hopefully everyone starts when their kids are born, and you're putting in whether it's 10 bucks a week or a hundred bucks a week or more. Um you know, it's a great opportunity to save interest free. Um, and they basically manage the money for you in a fund very, very inexpensive.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Oh, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

And it grows tax-free.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Listeners, you didn't think you were gonna get some financial advice management, did you? All right. Um, okay, so I will let's thank you for I I love going into like being a parent, navigating kids. Uh, and you know, I'm I feel like I'm right about up, and uh, you know, my son just turned 12. You know, he's in middle school, he's the future is bright, but there's you know, there's a lot to come. So I I always like to hear people's stories from the other side of the that that hill.

Shifting From Cardio To Strength

SPEAKER_02 29:15

So, but let's talk about you and your fitness you know situation currently. You know, it beans 56. You know, I know this about you. You're very healthy, you you do a lot, you exercise a lot, you're you're very dialed into to your uh to the numbers, the stats, the the data that you're you're focusing you're working with. Talk about kind of how you see your fitness journey right now. What are some of the things that you do that really move the needle for you or that have made the biggest impact in you kind of learning and and figuring out how to how to how to get as healthy as possible?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, I mean, I I for a while um I was a cardio junkie and um was doing a ton of just running, pounding the pavement, marathons, half marathons, those types of things, was doing some triathlons. And I realized like my cardio was amazing, but um I wasn't the strongest guy in the world. And like if I took off my shirt, people would go, wow, you look pretty ripped. But at the end of the day, like I was not really strong. And I realized, you know, especially over the last kind of five years, that from a longevity perspective, I don't think I'm gonna die, honestly, because of my, you know, uh cardio or heart type issue. It's more likely that it's gonna be cancer, unfortunately, for most of us. And everything that I read, see, and hear about is, you know, the importance of putting on muscle, weight, etc. So about five years ago, I kind of made the conscious decision of like slowing down cardio and really trying to ramp up, you know, putting on muscle, putting on some pounds. Um, so I've I've put on about 15 pounds of muscle over the last like two to three years, um, you know, really slowing down cardio, adding weights. And, you know, over time I've really learned like going back to the data and learning from experts like yourself, like, no, don't just crank out 20 of this and 15 of this and 12, like being purposeful and actually really trying to be mindful of what you're doing and hitting the weights in a in a muscle-building way, which is just so important. Um, so I've I've really kind of evolved my kind of fitness journey through kind of aging and growing and learning and listening to the right people. Um, and I've realized that it's kind of more important now than ever as you get older. Not it's not just about how you look, right? Because you can look great, but it's how you feel, how you move, and how you're gonna feel and move in your 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. Um, and that's really what I'm trying to like prepare my body now for is kind of that longevity of being able to be healthy, fit, you know, in my later years.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Yeah, and I I've there's a lot of discussion about like I think whether whatever you do, like most people are gonna be okay just in terms of their uh overall health into their 60s. There seems to be a point where like if you didn't do the work, if you didn't cardiovascular state nutrition strength training, then you you kind of fall off a cliff and you're somewhere in your 70s. Like it and that could just be from like an like you get injured, you get sick, you fall, something happens, and like and it's just like the bottom falls out, and then you're yeah, and and so it's it's really interesting. This is a you know, you and I are in that kind of we're in our mid-50, you're you're early fifties for me, mid-50s for you, and we're in this preparation. It's almost like you know, putting money in a 401k or uh, you know, 529 or whatever, like you're we're this prepar preparatory work that we're doing that doesn't necessarily have a dramatic impact on your health right now, but could be just incre like and you could get to 80 you know plus and just be you know just chugging right along and your parents your kids are like damn, dad, we're still bridging 225, you know, whatever. But like it's just we don't we that's the hope. And I think that with that perspective, it changes a lot of, you know, again, I think ego lifting uh kind of can can you can kind of let that go a little bit, although maybe I still love to pull a lot a lot of weight off the floor. But you start thinking about like what do I need want to make sure I'm really strong at? And I always think posterior chain, shoulders mobility, hip mobility, uh balance, uh specifically legs, you know, just having a strong like foundation of legs of leg strength. Um, so that you know, that we can, you know, kind of make our way and then not get injured. So it's like that risk reward thing is becomes more and more important. Have you had any setbacks where you kind of pushed a little bit too much and this thing happened? Or yeah, I don't think it's possible to work out all the time and not have that happen, by the way. I think it's because you never know what your limits are until you meet what's behind a limit, and you're like, oh crap, we've got to pull back.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yeah, and unfortunately, too, with um I trained too hard when I was running, so definitely injured myself in all you know, almost all lower body. And then when I started doing weights, that's when I kind of started realizing, oh my gosh, shoulder was a mess. I was able to fix the shoulder mostly through strength training, which felt great. Um the challenge I have today is hockey is a young man's sport, and um it really beats up the body, but I enjoy it a ton, and I know I'm only gonna play you know for so many years. Um, so I I do tend to get setbacks from hockey. It's mostly leg, it's usually kind of adductor, abductor areas. Yeah. Um, so that's kind of the biggest challenge.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

They just must be turned on, like your adductors are just like all the time, constantly firing.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah, yes.

unknown 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

So I've I've learned um, you know, I try to take some time off. I play two to three times a week, but I try to have gaps where I won't play for a week. Um and you know, the challenge is the days I play, I try not to do a ton of other activities because you know, that way I kind of have that, you know, I'm not setting myself up for injury. But I've I've found that a lot of times, just you know, I I I've realized, especially for guys in our 50s like us, not everyone is kind of like us that is super into wellness and fitness, and they'll you know ask me about like, well, what can I do? And I'm like, dude, just start walking, like just get outside. It's not that hard.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

And I, you know, and I kind of try to preach that myself where it's like, it's okay to just go walk three miles and feel good about it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah, I this one of the things that I find hard to help people with is we all want to wait until we hit rock bottom to like climb out and like decide we want to be healthy, right? And it just it's just so I think it's just the psychology of how people like how our brains work. It's like we we justify, we just we we make we you know, it's just like and then at some point we're like either like we go to the doctor, and the doctor's like, your blood pressure sucks. You're gonna die. You need to go extra something like that. So then we end up like trying to fix everything all at once, instead of like you know, I I have this I wish that this could stick more is like the one thing a month plan where it's like January to January, you know, the to February, you walk three miles a day, that's it. You know, February to March, you do you know, body weight four bodyweight exercises three days a week, that's it, right? You know, and then and just incrementally add, you know, March, you're just I'm sleeping eight hours a night, five days a week, that's my goal, right? You know, just some little incremental thing that you add in that at the end of 12 months you look back and you're like, I am a new person, right? But we want to do all those things in January and then February, we're like, I'm back to the cheeseburgers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

You know, I go ahead. I I no, I was gonna say, like, and you obviously you know train a lot of different people and have various kind of learnings from them. But the one thing that I've I've always tried to remind people, it's like if you're enjoying it, you're more likely to do it again. So don't do things you're like you hate, right? Like try to do things that you enjoy or you like, or add in things to it, you know, whether it's listening to podcasts when you do exercises or listening to music, or if you're walking and you get super bored, like call people. If you like to be social, then call people, or join walking groups or running groups, you know, or group exercises from like our past. You know, I think there's just a lot of things people can introduce to help them to get more consistent and get more passionate about it. But I feel like, and I'm sure you see this, right? They're like, okay, Bart, we're gonna go hard, like, you know, get me back in shape. And it's like, and you're always like, slow down, let's get the basics right. Let's get you enjoying it. I don't want you to get hurt. And then as you build those blocks, people seem to be more likely to like stay in the fitness journey.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I if you I think the caveat to that is the guy that goes to the gym and just does chest and bicep, and then six months later they have a shoulder injury. You know, it's like for the first month, go in the gym and just do the things you love. But if it's chest, if it's bench press and bicep curl, and that's all you ever do, it's not gonna go well long term. That's my one caveat to or like the the woman that goes in and just does like glutes all every day she's just working glutes every day. Just yeah, yeah. That's the um, yeah, it but but you're right. I think you know, if you and you're like me. I think we're we're a bit of like we're not like most people. We love the experience of like being in the gym, working out, checking the numbers, how my how what's my sleep score from last night? What you know, is my HRV higher than, you know, all that kind of stuff. Um, and that's not everybody. And and so we I get people kind of like you must that like ask me, like, how do you how do you stay motivated? And I feel like what I always have to preface like, well, I'm a different animal than you are. Right. Because I want to be in the gym more than I should. And my problem is like taking a day off, and your job, your problem is getting to the gym. So we're I'm my advice is probably not gonna help you, but let me translate what I would tell somebody else. That's that's kind of how I how I preface those types of things. Um But yeah, I think uh somebody in like you and me, I think the the challenge that I'm telling myself is like there's nothing more to prove. Do the work, don't get injured, and be as healthy as I can be, as long as I can be healthy. Because I have a kid that I I mean, I'm my kid's 12 and I'm 51. So when I'm 71, he's gonna be, you know, in his, you know, probably grandkids around the time that I'm, you know, that's I'm 65 to 70. Like, I want to be the like grandpa, oh like the big bear grandpa that like picks up the kids and like woo, and like, you know, I don't want to be the like well I used to be strong and now I jack my back and and all that. So uh yeah, that's the but that's the beauty of

Sleep HRV Bloodwork And Ownership

SPEAKER_02 41:06

perspective too. I mean, I think you know, talking about just life experience, uh what what's your what's your perspective on not just like the fitness thing, but like you're you know, you're 56, your dad lived to be in his 90s, so you've got good DNA for for living a long time. Like what what do you want this, you know, final couple chapters of your life to really resonate with?

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah, well, one of the things that I've transitioned to is you know, marketing consulting in uh the company is Haas Performance, which happens to also be my initials, but it stands for helping others succeed. And that's something that, you know, and that's why I love in this conversation. It's you know, trying to help others, really. Um and I've kind of I my plan is to enjoy life, travel, and help others. And um, whether it's my kids, my family, friends, people I don't know, um, that's really like my passion. I love to see people grow and improve, you know, through advice or through tidbits I've given them. I love getting texts from friends or people that I've met recently that they're like, thanks for sharing that with me. I just tried that and it worked, or you know, I'm back on the game again, or sleeping better now, or whatever it is. Um, that's kind of my motivation every day is really helping others. Love it.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

What just because we you've talked a lot about data and how important that is, I feel like I want to ask this question. What is the three most important data points for your like fitness longevity space right now? Like, what are the three things that you're looking at that other people should consider taking more like and focus on?

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I would say one don't be as crazy as you and I. But I have halfway. Yeah, half as crazy. You brought it up. Um, sleep is super important. So I do think start off with sleep because sleep gives you the energy to do everything else in your day. So, you know, having great sleep hygiene is super important. I don't think people realize how great or how poorly they sleep. So I do think you don't have to wear it every day, but having some sort of wearable that is telling you your sleep performance is important. Not every day, but most of the time. I think that's really, really important. So understanding your sleep performance and hygiene. You brought up HRV. Obviously, that's a longevity metric, and I think that's super, super, you know, important. So at least like understanding your zones and when you're working out and doing cardio, what zones you're in. So you can be pretty prescriptive in am I in a zone two workout or am I in a zone five workout? Or am I just doing this to like Feel better and sweat, you know. Um, so I think those kind of HRV zone two, zone five metrics are really good to know um and understand, you know, and then I think from there it's just that third factor really is determined somewhat about your current health, right? You know, whether it's cholesterol or fat or so many other factors to know. But I think a lot of that third factor is truly based on, you know, um understanding who you are today, so you can improve those metrics as well. I think everyone should go get a blood panel done. Like if you're listening, you've never done it, spend the hundred bucks, 200 bucks, go get a blood panel done as soon as possible. Learn much about it as you can. It's super easy. You get the data back, you throw it in any AI, Chat GPT, Gemini, et cetera. It will tell you everything you need to know about it and what you should work on, what you should improve on, whether it's sleep, fitness, or food, wellness, etc.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yeah. I mean, and there's they could test so many things now. Like there's so much, you know. I think before you go to your like general you know, doctor and they do a couple of things based on your age, and you'd have to ask them to do like a testosterone test or something like that. Nowadays, like you know, whatever. There's so many different ways to get like just massive amounts of information and then use uh AI to help you kind of sift through it and make plans. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely agree. I think with that whole idea of like people kind of waiting to hit rock bottom, like don't like go get a blood work before you know it's been a year since you got blood work. Yeah, just find out what's going on. Because you know, if you're not feeling great during the day and you didn't you didn't realize it was like, oh, actually my thyro thyroid is you know, I'm a hypothyroid all of a sudden, you know, or something like that. That could be a major factor in how like your body feels, even though you're getting decent sleep and you're eating well and you're trying to exercise. So there's there's just so many reasons why you know you you might be feeling suboptimal or or you might just get like a great bill of health and be like, hey, things are great, cool, let's keep this going. But I mean, let's hope that's the answer. But just knowing where you are right now is is such an important thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

And don't rely on your primary care physician, your PCP. Like you see them for 10 minutes, they kind of look at your data, they just make sure you don't have certain markers. Yeah, that those markers are identified after you do your blood work, but they don't really get into it. It's kind of like someone looking at your car and saying, Oh, there's no check engine light, you're okay, move on. Like if you want to, if you want to feel better, if you want to improve your longevity, you got to take it into your own hands and not rely on a PCP. Awesome.

Helping Others Succeed And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_02 46:49

I hear you, man. So you got you know, your life ahead of you. You you've got your goals to help people and and really like live your live your truth with uh business, family, and travel. Is there any other travel place? Is there any place you want to travel to in the next year or so that's this bucket list? Like, hey, I'm you know, somewhere out there that you're you're planning on going?

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Yeah, I there's well, there's two trips that I'm excited about. One, I'm going to London. My nephew's having a baby, so kind of expanding the family. Nice. Um, so I'm excited to see a baby, you know, within our family. We haven't had one in a really long time. So I'm excited about that. Um, and then we are working on our kind of 2027 travel plans, which is so weird to say. Um, so excited about those, but we really haven't locked in any of them yet. But I'm most of them will be outdoor hiking, traveling, you know, really enjoying the world. Um, more on a uh what I'll call the green level versus the urban level.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Gotcha. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, we're we're we're working on a spring break uh trip over to to Italy for next year. My wife's never been, and of course my son's never been. So that's uh that's our that's our big you know, circle that march, you know, mid-March. Travel to Italy, just do it all. But uh Yeah, man, I love that. I'm a big believer that I mean travel, especially for kids, man. If you can I feel like kids learn grow up so much just in that in that you know space of a week and a half, two weeks when they're off like experiencing the world and all that. So well, Howard, I really appreciate you, man. Um where can people find you if somebody listens to this and wants to find out about your company or your uh consulting services, where do they go?

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Yeah, just just LinkedIn, um, and you'll find me under Howard Schaefer or Haas Performance. Um pretty active on LinkedIn. Try to post, I guess, weekly, every other week, something like that. Tips and tricks, uh, try to help people. Love that. Um, but that's the best place to find me.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Yeah, and just quick little last shout-out here. So um Howard reached out to me and said, Hey, uh, my brother is looking for a new trainer. He lives at the Austonian, and I was like, Oh, okay, I'll go talk to him. That was about two and a half years ago. I now train about 25 people at the Austonian. And just I'm I'm literally there five to six days a week. Just the next one, you know, Steve and Pat and all these, just one after another. Just it's been such a just a blessing, the whole, like, just the whole vibe of the Austonian. Of course, the gym's on like the 55th floor, so you're just looking over like the fishbowl looking over the whole city downtown. So, anyway, thank you for that. That was you just kind of opened up a whole world for me.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

It goes back to helping others succeed. So I'm happy I was able to do that, Bart. You're I know you're a great trainer, so thanks for helping others.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

Absolutely. Well, thanks for listening to the Mindset Forge podcast.