The Mindset Forge
In Season Five, The Mindset Forge focuses on helping men between 40 - 60 years old maximized this chapter of life by building strength, discipline, purpose and a proactive mindset.
During Season's one through four, you will fantastic content focused mainly on successful athletes and performing artists who've learned how to show up for the big moments of sports, performance and life.
The Mindset Forge
Debunking Longevity Myths, Peptides & Testosterone with Dr. Tracy Gapin
Discover the secrets to not just living longer, but living better, as I, Barton Bryan, team up with men's health maven Dr. Tracy Gapin. Our conversation will transport you beyond the simplicity of lab results and into the heart of what it means to truly thrive in your prime. Dr. Gappin, with his profound insights from "Male 2.0," joins us to debunk common myths and illuminate the transformative potential of peptides and testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). We're peeling back the curtain on longevity, showing that it's not about the years in your life, but the life in your years.
Heart health isn't always visible from the surface as evidenced by the experiences of fitness enthusiasts like Bob Harper and my brother John, who both faced unexpected heart issues despite their healthy exteriors. We tackle the often-overlooked connection between testosterone levels and cardiac wellness, emphasizing the need for personalized diagnostic testing. You'll be guided through the maze of total versus free testosterone levels and learn why these distinctions are critical in shaping your well-being. Our candid exchange will equip you with the knowledge to confront these blind spots and command your health destiny.
Wrap up your listening experience with a dive into the evolving landscape of health optimization. We discuss the significance of peptides in the health scene and address recent FDA changes impacting their accessibility. I'll share insights on the challenges facing men seeking knowledgeable healthcare providers and navigating the shift towards precision healthcare. Our talk is a testament to the power of personalized health strategies, demonstrating that a tailored approach, considering age, environment, and personal goals, is paramount in the pursuit of a vigorous and fulfilling life. Join us for a dialogue that redefines the path to your personal zenith of health and longevity.
More about Dr. Gapin
https://gapininstitute.com/
Email: Barton@bartonguybryan.com
Website: http://bartonguybryan.com
Use this link to get a 30 minute discovery call scheduled with Barton regarding the Team Bryan Wellness Concierge Fitness Program
https://calendly.com/bartbryan/conciergecoachingcall
My 3 Top Episodes of the first 100:
7 Essentials to Building Muscle after 40
3x Olympic Gold Medalist Brendan Hansen
MMA Strength and Conditioning Coach Phil Daru
Welcome back to the Mindset Forge podcast. I'm Barton Bryan, your host as a personal trainer, somebody working with clients, specifically those age group 40 to 60, working with men on this chapter of our life, but also somebody who's 49. I just turned 49 last week and very involved in my own health and really maximizing my longevity, my optimizing my overall health and fitness. This is just a fascinating conversation. Today I interviewed Dr Tracy Gappin. He's an MD, he's from Sarasota, florida, and he really works with people on longevity, looking at how to optimize your health in your 40s and 50s. He's got a book out called male 2.0, where he's really talking to men about how to optimize health, hormones, all the things that are going to help keep us absolutely at our best, not just in our 40s and our 50s but beyond, and so this is a fantastic interview. It was kind of personal to me. I had some personal questions for him about my own blood work, my health, that kind of stuff. We talk about peptides, we talk about TRT, we talk about a lot of different things, a lot of the stereotypes of the. You know the health space and what people are not getting about longevity and hormones and peptides specifically. But it was just really fascinating About a 45 minute conversation. You're going to love it. This is a perfect segue to the biohacking conferences coming up in Austin, texas, april 6th and 7th. Definitely let me know if you want some tickets. I got some free tickets to give away and I'm also doing a couple of raffles before this conference comes back. But yeah, check that out to information in the show notes and at the end you'll find out how you can get access to his book and a high performance guy that he's going to put out just by shooting him a text message at the end.
Speaker 1:All right, let's kick this off. My interview with Dr Tracy Gappin. Okay, I'm here with Dr Tracy Gappin, md, going to talk to us all about health and longevity. Dr Tracy Gappin, as you may know, my audience is really 40 to 60 year old men trying to max out this chapter of our lives. This can absolutely be our best chapter, but we've got to be more disciplined, more focused on what counts and what's really going to move the needle in terms of keeping us healthy, energy, living our best lives.
Speaker 1:So glad to have you here, excited to get into some details and some in depth discussion just about the whole aspect of longevity. What's new on the kind of horizon around longevity? I think it's easy to think longevity, oh, we just also be on TRT because that's what Joe Rogan says and you know, case close. But obviously there's so much to the concept of longevity, biohacking and those types of things. So, looking forward to this. First of all, dr Gappin, let's go right into, like what are the misconceptions that you constantly run into with people who either think they know or know a little bit about longevity, that they maybe are missing the big picture of what you're dealing with here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So the concept of longevity is has exploded, obviously, in the last few years, and it's a concept that has, for the longest time, been met with skepticism. People scoff at it. That's not possible. That's not possible to extend life span, life expectancy. Or I hear a lot of people say I don't want to live to 100 because I saw my grandparents lived 100. I saw how miserable and frail and decrepit they were, and that's the last thing I would want to do would be to spend 20 years of suffering. And I think that one of the other misconceptions, I'll add, is that people think that there's a magic pill. Oh, you're just trying to sell a magic pill and you're just a salesperson. Sell me this magic pill for longevity.
Speaker 2:And I want to dispel each one of those myths and I want to clarify that when we talk about longevity, there's kind of two concepts here there's health span and there's lifespan. Right, and lifespan is just simply how long do you live? Right, you're going to live till you're 82, 84, 90 years old. But then health span is really how much of that time are you spent in a functional state? You know where you're living, the way you are now, and we can relate to this. If you know, my audience is 40 to 60 as well, and you can relate to this by just think of how you felt when you were 20, how you felt when you were 30, how you suddenly start to feel when you're 40, and then, holy cow, how I feel when I'm 50, and how things start to change. And that's the change we're talking about. That, you know, when we look at health span, it's the quality of life, it's how functional are you, how can you continue to do the things that you love to do in the best way possible? So that's, that's the health span, and so there has been tremendous growth and development around the, the extension of health span.
Speaker 2:What is still yet to be fully proven is extension of lifespan, and so when we talk about extending, you know, longevity, the science is there. We now understand the, you know the 13 hallmarks of longevity, so we understand the physiologic processes behind extending lifespan, and we can actually measure that now with different types of aging tests we could talk about, but it's still, I think, that there's still a lot to be learned on. Are we truly extending life span? And if we are, it's probably going to be incremental for a while.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I'll dispel is that that there's just, you know, some magic pill that people are trying to create and sell and that's that's. That cannot be farthest from the truth when we look at what are the key drivers for extending health span and improving quality of life and, hopefully, extending lifespan, there's not going to be one magic bullet. It's going to be a combination of confluence of different factors which we could talk about, that all kind of come together. And so, you know, joe Rogan may be saying push testosterone alone, and while I love testosterone, I like to say that's just one piece of a much bigger puzzle and while it may start there, it never ends there when we come, when it comes to, you know, men's health optimization in particular, and so those are my thoughts on longevity and I'm happy to die whatever direction you like to go from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's go. Yeah, I think this, you know, nobody can guarantee the future, right, you can do everything right in your 40s and 50s and still die at 65 from something you never saw coming a bus or a disease or something you know, like you. Just, we can't. We all want to feel like, if we do the work now, like somehow we'll be saved or, you know, guaranteed this, like super healthy 75 year old body that you know can still pick up anything and carry it across the yard or play with your grandkids or whatever that thing is. That like will make you feel like you've, you know, arrived at that age where you're still strong. You know, and as a trainer, I, you know, I work with a lot of people 40s, 50s, but also in their 60s. You know, working on balance, working on, like you know, not falling, because obviously you know that you fall and bust your hip. That's that's pretty much, you know.
Speaker 2:Really, that's a significant accelerator for your end of your life pretty quickly, so especially in the 70s and 80s.
Speaker 1:So so, you know, those things start to become more important as we start to realize our, the frailty of our body, or or, you know, as we get closer to that point in which we, we feel less, you know, vital. And so in the 40s I mean I'm 49, as I told you, you know I'm right there, at the end of the 40s, like four is very different from 45. 45 was very different from what is now 49. Even as I've maxed out my like eating and my like, you know, I'm sleeping better than I probably was five years ago. My gym workouts are probably smarter than they were, you know, 10 years ago.
Speaker 1:And yet, you know, there's, there's these you know, challenges, with just the fact that my body's 49 and it's it's slightly suboptimal in terms of what it used to do at 35 or, you know, 30. And so that's, you know. So that becomes the choice that you know someone must take is like, okay, I can eat, well, I can sleep. There's, there's certain natural levers we can pull right, like I always like to think, like you know, like the great Oz, with, like his levers, like you know, making the things happen.
Speaker 1:There's the nutrition lever, which is one that I think most people just fail at, and if we did that alone, we probably have some significant progress in terms of health. There's the sleep and recovery lever and then, of course, there's the fitness lever and and those are kind of the big if you're talking about the macros of life, those are the ones that I see like if you could pull those levers and improve those good start right, but then you go a layer deeper and you start looking at supplements or hormones or you know what might be going on inside. That's suboptimal, you know, and and, and. That's that's where I think a doctor like yourself, or people that are really like in the, the science of that's letting us know. You know from the research, from these studies that are going on you know, what, what are what we're seeing that can actually, you know, make a difference.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't think it's the first thing. We need to be like pulling in terms of like lifestyle, but but probably third or fourth down the road, like what are those other things we can be thinking about? So let's talk about not nutrition, not sleep, not fitness, because those are covered a lot in this podcast. So let's go to that next layer, let's talk about hormones and let's go into some of the other things that may may be on the horizon for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So a couple points that I love to emphasize here is the concept of hidden blind spots, and I'll share a brief story that will, two stories that may drive this home. The first is a guy named Bob Harper. Some may or may not know him. He is the head fitness trainer on the tv show the biggest loser. He is the epitome of good health. He trains people how to lose weight and get in shape and he looks great. We all aspire to look like him with his you know, tight t-shirt and um? Uber healthy guy. And you may have heard the story that a couple years ago, at age 51, bob Harper had a massive heart attack. He had a widowmaker occlusion is called a massive coronary occlusion and he almost died and had surgery and he recovered, he survived, and afterwards he talked about how there were things going on his body he wasn't aware of. How does it go like Bob Harper have a heart if it's all just dying exercise? How does Bob Harper have a heart attack and almost die? We're missing something right.
Speaker 2:My brother john. He is his largely the life guy. He's this massive present physically, also has a massive heart. Everyone loved him. What we knew about john was that he was obsessed with fitness. He was in the gym every day. He's one of the gym rats and he looked the part, you know, super in shape guy. Um, what we didn't know about john was that he was on the side privately doing his own testosterone, doing supplements, steroid bro science kind of stuff that he was learning from his buddies and and and dr google and uh.
Speaker 2:One morning, at the age of 49, my brother john dropped dead, and so I share these two stories to just really bring home the point that we all have blind spots in our health, and I'd be one of the. Every single person listening to this has some blind spot that they're not aware of that may or may not be causing problems now, but it's lurking under the surface waiting to cause issues, and so so I love that you're emphasizing, you know, sleep and nutrition and fitness, um, and those are incredibly important, and I think it's so important that we do the advanced diagnostic testing to find what are those blind spots that we don't even realize are under the surface. And so what are blind? You know what are examples. So number one would be hormones. You know, we know that men with low testosterone have about a 30 increase risk of a major adverse cardiac event 30 percent.
Speaker 1:We know that which hold on because that is different from the idea that people that have high testosterone are at a higher risk of heart disease and cardiovascular counter to oh, your heart's going to grow too big. There's, you know. I mean, if you're taking gh or something, that's a different thing, but yeah. So if you're, yeah, go there yeah, great, great point.
Speaker 2:So when we look at you know, men and I'm going to use a free testosterone level that's really where we want to be focused on, not total, but but for the sake of the conversation here, um, I'll see guys coming off the street and their free tea will be five, five ppk or estimate milliliters the unit there, and that's on a lab core. If it's a quest, and maybe a one, uh, decimal extra zero at the end, so it'd be, it'd be 200 or gold there, right of the 20s, a target for lab core coming with a level of five and um, what we're talking about is getting that man up to 20, from five to 20. Now, by doing that, we are going to reduce cardiovascular risk or a little to improve lipid profile. We're going to put blood sugar regulation, inflammation all these are the key markers that correlate with improved testosterone levels.
Speaker 2:The misconception is we're thinking of guys who have free testosterone levels of 300, want bodybuilders who are on testosterone and steroid hormones and growth hormone, and that causes incredible stress in the heart. You hear about these guys dropping dead one day, like my brother john. Very, very different from what we're talking about. We're talking about optimizing testosterone. We're talking about getting that t level free tea of five to 20. I'm not trying to get your five to 300, and that's the key distinction here. We're talking about optimizing, not, you know, I'm trying to make you a man, not superman, sort of so before you, before you go on.
Speaker 1:This is important because most of the time when people talk about total testosterone, they hear the number total testosterone and like, oh, it's 630 or it's, you know, 900, or it's three. It's low, it's in the 300s or below. That's the total tea and you're talking about free testosterone. So why don't you just help us differentiate between the two and why knowing the two numbers matters?
Speaker 2:yeah, so when you get a total testosterone number, that is the total amount of testosterone that's floating in your bloodstream and that's typically in a nanograms per deciliter unit, and typically you'll see 400, 600, 800, something like that. The ridiculous range that you'll see the reference range on the right side of the page I'll talk about a moment may say 240 to 900 or something absurd, right, okay, but testosterone in the bloodstream about 95, 98 percent of that is actually bound to proteins, right? Proteins like sex hormone binding glob is the most common one alpha one, anicomotrypsin complex name, another protein, albumin to a lesser extent, right. What these proteins do is they bind to the testosterone molecule and typically don't let go.
Speaker 2:Well, for testosterone to actually have any biologic, physiologic effect, it has to get into a cell, a muscle cell, for example, has to diffuse, has to go through the cell wall. It has to then bind to an androgen receptor and then it goes to the nucleus, the headquarters of the cell, and that's where it actually causes its effect. It has an outcome of physiologic result, right. When it's bound to these proteins in the bloodstream, it can't do that, can't get, even get in a cell, it can't do anything, it's unavailable for use, and so all we care about. The only number that matters is what's the bioavailable or active form of testosterone? Is actually doing anything for me? Right, and that's the free got it free me.
Speaker 2:It's simply very important, yeah yeah, free floating, not bound to proteins in the blood. That's why hence is called free, and typically it's about one percent of your total is what your free is going to be okay. And so when you get a lab test done, be sure that you're getting a free testosterone, not just a total. I would actually argue the total doesn't really help us a whole lot, because what I want to know is the free right and the free again. I've seen numbers in the you know five, six, seven range when guys come in having never tested it before, and your target is 20 for lab core. If you're using quest, that target is 200. Most guys are nowhere close to that number right now.
Speaker 2:Three massive studies longitudinal studies, uh, us, sweden, finland, 20, 30 year studies all showed the same thing and that is that levels free tea levels have dropped almost 50% in the last 20 years worldwide massive decline. So that what that means is a 49 year old guy like you today has a free testosterone level that's about 45% lower than it was 20 years ago. And so now I want to come back to the lab reference range I mentioned before now kind of tied all together. Yeah, that reference range on the right side of your lab is not the ideal, optimal range where you want to be. That is simply the average of the population, of all the labs they've done.
Speaker 2:Lab core does a billion testosterone levels. What is the average? You know, statistically, you got a median and two standard deviations gives you a bell curve and that's what. That range is, just the average, right. But knowing that levels have dropped by almost 50% of the last 20 years now you can understand that that range is simply 50% lower than it was. And so when you're on the bottom end of that range, that's not where you want to be, even though you're being told you're in range, yeah yeah, that's a hard thing because the industry has created these ranges and there's even, like you know, insurance won't cover HRT if it.
Speaker 1:If you're in the range, right, you have to be below it, and so, therefore, there's some sort of like you're good, you're not, even if you're at 300, or you know, 6.9 or whatever the, the free T number is at the bottom right. So this is, this is a chat, because what you're talking about and what what longevity is all about, is being optimal, not being okay, not like suffering through midlife with like low energy and like no libido. And you're like I feel okay, but I hate it. You know, that's okay, that's probably in the range that sucks, right, what's? What's the other side of that? And that's how do we optimize our bodies to be, to feel at our best, without obviously putting it at risk of premature death?
Speaker 1:Right, like you know, you don't want to be the guy who's like yeah, just started doing testosterone and growth, and you know, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, and all these peptides, and there are lots of guys out there, especially at the gym, that they're doing this. 10 years from now, they drop dead. You're like ooh, miss that, there's a blind spot there. Too much of something that seemed to be a good idea wasn't a good idea, so that's right.
Speaker 2:Dosing is incredibly important.
Speaker 1:So Tracy on this, this is kind of fun because I just got my blood work back yesterday.
Speaker 2:Oh fun.
Speaker 1:And I got. I went lab core, we did the Roche test. So you get much more. So I got. It was 634 total, 6.03. There you go so you are, I mean, nailed it.
Speaker 2:You see it every day, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's so the but. Every time I've ever gotten testosterone done, I've always just gotten 640, 720, whatever. It was always in that high range. I'm good, all all as well. But now I'm learning that there's another number that actually matters all the heck of a lot more. So not that you're my doctor, so you're not giving me advice, but if someone's in this situation as a 49-year-old pretty typical what are the types of things that I and others should be looking into to kind of ameliorate the situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again just want to emphasize we're simply talking about one of over 50 hormones that we look at. We haven't talked about all the other tests that we do as well, so I just want to honor that real quick. But when it comes to testosterone, I think it's important to recognize that it's not just about sex, it's not just about building muscle and aesthetics Like. Testosterone is critically important when it comes to cognitive function. Focus, mental acuity, memory, concentration is all tied to testosterone level. Mood, energy, your ability to function throughout the day, your recovery from exercise, your ability to sleep, bone health, visceral fat, insulin resistance or blood sugar regulation. And then we mentioned cardiovascular health. We know that when it comes to cancer, we know that men with low testosterone also have about a 20% to 30% increased risk of developing prostate cancer, which is very counterintuitive, mind blown. But it's the opposite of what you would think, that low T is associated with massive risk.
Speaker 2:And so the first thing is to just recognize that when we're talking about T, we're not just talking about the fun stuff sex and muscle we're talking about your actual health span, your life span, everything. So then we look at how can we improve that, and there are natural ways and there are unnatural ways of doing that. The natural approach is to boosting testosterone level and you talked about a lot of this on your podcast already, but I'll just emphasize this again that good quality sleep is one of the biggest things that you can do to improve testosterone. Low testosterone causes crummy sleep quality, which causes low testosterone. It's a vicious cycle. So fixing sleep quality is really big. We know that stress has a massive impact on our hormones, especially testosterone. So mitigating chronic stress and most of the high performers who listen to your podcast will say I'm not stressed, I'm not that bullshit, I'm fine, I can handle it, and what I would put is I like put a different way.
Speaker 1:We just deal with stress better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go it's. Do you have work-life balance? Are you a race car in the red every day or do you turn that engine off sometimes so you can let it recover and heal and take care of itself? And most guys don't turn off that engine, they keep going, but stress is a big one in sleep. I mentioned Getting good quality micronutrients, especially B vitamins, zinc, magnesium. Other key micronutrients are important. Getting good, healthy, fast in your diet are important. And then fitness. I know you talk about this a lot as well, but resistance training, especially the big muscles quads, hamstrings, core, back, all of the big belly muscles are going to be really important for boosting testosterone. We know that sunlight, especially to the scrotum, can boost testosterone levels.
Speaker 1:Wow, there we go, you're hitting your balls, there you go. That is the quote of the podcast. Tan your balls, guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suggest you go in your backyard, not your front yard, when you do this. Yeah, really Go out there and sun your balls for about 10 minutes. Yeah, so there have been a few studies that have shown some improvement there as well. I love it.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to hear anything else in time. It's all I get to say.
Speaker 2:So, dr Tracey, all I got to do is sun my balls, sun your balls, let's go. But let's say you did all of that stuff I just mentioned and you did it all perfectly. You did it all every day for six months. Let's just say you were perfectly compliant, which no one ever is for six months. Your six may get up to 10, 11, 12, 13. I want you your target, your ideal goal should be about 20, maybe even 25, but definitely 20. And so you see how. Yes, the natural, non-invasive approaches to boosting testosterone are great, they're fine, they're going to make a difference, but are they going to move the needle enough to where you now don't need some additional therapy? What I find is it's very rare for that alone to do it, and I'll see guys that'll do that. Yeah, I'm just going to do natural stuff and I'll say OK, good, and I'll see them a couple years later.
Speaker 2:I'm ready. What do you got? And they're ready to bite the bullet. And typically that happens. Right around 45 to 50 is where guys start to hit that wall and it's something that has built up over time. Low T, a lot of guys. I have a 35-year-old or the big surgeon buddy of mine here locally who got his labs up 35. And his testosterone level was in the tank. His free was four and he's like I feel fine, my T is going to be fine.
Speaker 1:Just check it, see where you are.
Speaker 2:And it was four, and so you often won't have symptoms for quite a while until suddenly you have really significant symptoms from it Interesting.
Speaker 1:Ok. So the homeopathic approach tan your balls, eat better, go to the gym, sleep better, all that stuff OK. So then what's the next step? Obviously you're looking at HRT, which means hormone replacement therapy, but there's, I mean, hcg, eclomid. Are those things an option too? Or is that more like Because that's more used for fertility but could kind of regenerate some testicular function?
Speaker 2:if on certain people, so the key is to recognize that your body is not making enough tea and despite everything you could possibly do, it's typically never going to make enough tea for you on its own. So the first thing to kind of just conceptually understand your body is not making enough.
Speaker 1:It's not a fluke, it's not like oh. I had a bad weekend.
Speaker 2:It's not your fault, it's not a fluke, but it's also not going to get better. Not going to get better on its own. It's going to get worse, and we can look at toxins in the environment that caused it. We can look at genetic effect from your parents and your grandparents that have trickled down. There are a lot of reasons why this has happened, but nonetheless, your body is not going to make it, and so one way that we've got to get it up. If you're young and you still want to have kids, then HCG eclomid medications are a great way to stimulate your body to produce more testosterone Good option for you and we can often get your levels up to where you need to be using that approach.
Speaker 1:But your point is that that's only a band aid. Because you're at this age, at some point when the testicular function is decreased, you can kind of stimulate it, but at the same time you're still going to send it. It's always going to end up kind of back where it was, in a sense.
Speaker 2:That's right. If you were to stop it, you'd be right back where you were, whether you do the HCG eclomid kind of combination or you do the TRT, where we actually give you testosterone, either way we're going to get your level up to where they need to be and if we were to ever stop that, you go right back to where you were. And so a lot of guys will ask well, if you put me on testosterone, how long do I have to take it? It's common, I get that all the time.
Speaker 2:Forever, and my answer would be you could stop. Whenever you want to feel like shit again, just let me know. Just stop it. I'm joking, of course, but the answer is once guys get their testosterone levels up to where they need to be, suddenly they realize oh my god, I didn't realize how bad I felt before. And now suddenly my mind can function, I can focus clearly, my mental acuity, I'm sharp again, my mood is better, my wife knows that I'm happier guy, I'm sexually driven again, I'm performing better, I'm recovering, I'm burning up belly fat, like all these things are great. Doc, you're not going to ever stop this, are you? And that's how the question typically turns around to Doc You're not going to get off this at any time, are you? Because you need testosterone. It's a vital hormone.
Speaker 1:No, I mean I've never met anybody who's done TRT, who's complained about it.
Speaker 2:There you go, there you go. Yeah, I've never had a guy stop it.
Speaker 1:Maybe, yeah, and acting chemist and and you know it's interesting, my best friend is a pediatrician and he, you know he was struggling with like a lot of shoulder issues as a swimmer or a surfer and such. And yeah, he, just he, at some point he finally checked his TRT, his test numbers. He was low, he got, he got on some you know just TRT, and man, his shoulder pain went away, like because he wasn't recovering, he was had all this inflammation. You know, it wasn't just that, he felt better, it's like his body started to heal itself again, right, like you know, and he was able to go back to the gym and start to actually get stronger and put on muscle and just live up.
Speaker 1:I mean the quality of the fly, you know, talking to him before, very low energy, very kind of like heavy. He talking to him now he's like man, you got to just like like a, like a sales rep for TRT, like it's just funny. But and he's a doctor, so it's like he's not just fooled by, you know, you know kind of pseudo science, he knows what's going on, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's certainly not going to fix everything, but it's going to be a great start. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting and I think you know it's one of those things too where we, you know the sociology of this time in our life is. You know you hear words like toxic masculinity and you know these like kind of overly masculine people or influences and such, who kind of like make the idea of having a lot of testosterone or being like at our best mask, you know, as men, some, some, but somehow shameful or like. Why do we want that? Or are we just going to be running around and like, cutting people off in on the freeway and flipping everybody the bird and, you know, trying to get in fights? You know, like that kind of Roy Rage's, like abuse of testosterone, which of course you know you think about from the 80s, and just like stereotypes of people who abuse steroids and I think that's one of those challenges is like, and steroids, which is called, you know, the sport of bodybuilding. They look amazing, they're dying at 45 and 50, like left and right, like, so. So, yeah, like, and you talk about your was your brother or your cousin.
Speaker 1:My brother you know very similar like that. You know this you. We have to understand that, in the context of where we are in our lives, there is an optimal place where you're healthier because of the testosterone or because of the, the, the right hormone levels, with out being in a place where you're unhealthy or kind of out of control, which is kind of the perception of, you know, this over-masculinated man running around like beating his chest and just lifting weights over his head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's also what we're talking about. It's not going to cause aggressiveness or rage or it's not going to cause any sort of you know, you know, you know abuse to your wife. It's not going to cause any changes to your personality for the worst. It's going to optimize, going to improve your clarity, your thinking. It's going to improve your mood. It's going to help you feel like a man again. We're not talking to get into the levels like you're, like you're describing bodybuilding guys. That's a very different story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think it's. It's also, I mean, that's why this stuff is. You know you and your doctor. You know you're working with someone like Dr Gappin or somebody like that, who's you know, understands how this works, who understands how you know what the options are, what to look for, what the indicators of health versus abuse are, and and, and riding that line of like let's be optimal, not let's abuse.
Speaker 1:Because you know you can go onto websites and find all this stuff illegally or kind of pseudo. You know pseudo legally. I mean it's incredible what you can do if you really want to just pay with Bitcoin on, you know the internet and just I mean it's. It's a different world than the 80s where you had to like know a guy at the gym who would like bring you the like steroids. You know it's like this is. It's a very weird place that we're in right now, and so you know and that's all still the abuse of an illegal substance that you're not being directed with the doctor. You know what this, what you are conversation about, is not steroids. It's about TRT as a way to optimize your health in your 40s, 50s and beyond, and that's very important yeah doing the right way, exactly Right.
Speaker 1:So I mean it's this is a fascinating topic, especially since it has got blood work done. I'm like, hmm, okay, first time I was like maybe I'm not. I mean, because I'm like 12% body fat, I'm 220 pounds, I am the guy at the gym. You're like, oh yeah, you know, and I kind of I I walk around feeling like I've done it all, naturally right, like I, this is not enhanced, I don't know. And TRT, there's a certain pride to like owning that space, but you know, I also don't want to feel like shit. I also want to get results from, you know, the hard work that I'm putting in and feeling like I'm recovering and that kind of stuff. So it's a very interesting space. What are some other things that I think are outside? You know, the kind of TRT realm that are, that are really fascinating, that you've noticed that's starting to become much more mainstream and and recognizable as a longevity approach. That's been successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I love peptides. Peptides are incredible, they're. I've been using them, I've been prescribing them for five years now going on, and they're starting to really become mainstream, get a lot of public awareness of it and, along with that, unfortunately, some FDA awareness which we can talk about last year, but peptides are amazing.
Speaker 2:Peptides are a way that we can really address those blind spots that I mentioned. And you know, the fundamental things are correcting hormones. The fundamental things are reducing inflammation, blood sugar regulation, helping with micronutrient levels, detoxification, all these kind of key physiologic processes. I love peptides to support that and it's I like to say it's the icing on the cake where a lot of people are trying to just take peptides, like semi-glute tide, for example. Tears empathize this peptide for weight loss. It's been the rave over the last year, Some good, you know. Just taking peptide alone is not the answer is, and I like to say, you can't get the icing until you bake the cake. It doesn't work that way, and so I love peptides as a way to improve things like musculoskeletal repair, reduce inflammation, clean up the gut, improve cognitive function, improve your immune system, help with mood, help with even things like sexual drive and performance and hair, skin and nails and almost anything you can imagine.
Speaker 1:Now there are peptides that can help address those issues.
Speaker 2:There you go, hey, there's a peptide for that.
Speaker 1:There you go, hair loss good.
Speaker 1:But yeah, no, this sorry to score along you there, but yeah, you know this is an interesting place because, if you all don't know, the kind of peptides has been a really popular kind of buzzword in the longevity space and just recently, like I think just in the fall of last year, the FDA kind of shut down or put like a level two dangerous tag on most peptides about 30 of them and basically you know, which doesn't mean they're illegal, it just means like there is a little bit more scrutiny around like new pharmacies and compound pharmacies, but they pump these things out, so give us an update on where that's at and how that works, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So to clarify, I think it's important for people to understand like what the hell happened in September and what does it mean? So the FDA came out of rule and, like you said, and they moved it from category one to category two, and that simply means category two means that they you know, air quotes cannot confirm the safety of these products, and my one word response for that excuse my language in advance would be bullshit. We have we have hundreds of studies, hundreds of clinical trials, hundreds of data points that show us the safety and the efficacy of these peptides, and they come from our own body. They come from you know. So a peptide is a protein, is a short protein, is anything under the 15 amino acids in sequence. Is a peptide 50 to 100 amino acids? As a polypeptide, greater than 100 amino acids, it's a protein. So we're simply talking about short proteins that were derived from our own bodies. Insulin is a peptide, growth hormone is a peptide, and a lot of the peptides that were on this list that were affected come from the human body. Thymus and alpha is an incredible peptide that's been around for 15 years now. It actually helped me. When I first got COVID, I had it in my fridge waiting. March of 2020, when I was one of the first to get hit with it. I had four peptides ready, one of which was thymus and alpha that dramatically helped me recover.
Speaker 2:Well, the FDA comes out with this ruling in September and says that they can't confirm the safety of these products, these peptides, these peptides therefore, any compounding pharmacy that makes them could be at risk, could be liable. There's exposure. Fda can't support you. So what that means is it's not that they made them illegal. You can't really make a peptide illegal. What they did was that they said because we can no longer confirm the safety of it. Now, if there's any adverse events, reactions, outcomes from the peptide, just like a drug, now the compounding pharmacy is not protected. They're liable, they're at risk, and so the compounding pharmacy is. They're not going to take that risk. They're not going to risk getting shut down over one, that adverse outcome, and so that's the real problem is that the FDA and when I say FDA, I'm really putting in big pharma and parentheses- next to them because they're one in the same.
Speaker 2:They regulate all this, and it's utter bullshit. And so what we're doing is we're finding new, better peptides every day, peptides that are going through rigorous scientific testing. Sometimes I've been around for a long time that they're not coming back around and getting more attention, because we realize how good they are. And if we can't use the ones that were ruled out, which ones can we use? And so it's this cat mouse game, almost of what amazing peptides can we use that the FDA won't take away from us?
Speaker 1:And that's where we're at right now it really comes down to the fundamental belief and if you just believe in the old industry, well, fda knows best. I'm sure they're taking our best interest in heart, right. But on the other side it's like well, these are. If something's new or feels new, it's new to me. Maybe it hasn't been scrutinized, maybe it hasn't gone through enough tests, maybe I need to. People are still coming out to me. It's like should I take creatine monohydrate or should I give creatine monohydrate to my son who's 14? I'm like yes, it's the most studied compound on the planet.
Speaker 1:In fact the 46 year old housewife should take it to, probably more so than the 13 year old, 14 year old young athlete because it's so great for cognitive. But again, in the 80s there was like one guy who took way too much creatine and already had a kidney disorder, I think, and it had some sort of a negative kidney function from it and that somehow got spun into like creatine is somehow an anabolic steroid or lives in that family. I'm like it's an energy source stored in your muscle. What are we doing here? But I mean, if I'm having that conversation with people about creatine, which you can find at any convenience store on the planet, that's just next level when you get to peptides and other things. It's really about trusting the people that are in the know, like yourself, who are really trying to move this conversation forward, and trust it like you're not you're not a what's what's the, you know like a snake oil salesman. You're. You're trying to really help people find opportunities or options for themselves that that can work for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we, you know, we don't sell peptides, we sell health, optimization, performance, longevity. Like you know, I'm not the business of making compounding, selling peptides, but I prescribe a lot of peptides because I believe in them and they're part of a comprehensive approach. That, I think, is a very valuable asset and so I do think there's an incredible value there. I think that anything we can do to, you know, avoid pharmaceuticals if at all possible, then I think it's great. I think peptides give us a way to do that. And and you know, look, this is end of one medicine. I want to be clear that you know, precision medicine that we do here and anyone medicine we're talking about, that means that everyone is unique, everyone's different, everyone's going to respond differently to any drug, supplement, peptide you take and you're going to have to see how you respond to it and some people do great with a certain drug, other people don't. It doesn't mean that that necessarily bad is. It's individualized and that's where that's where I think we're heading as much more precision around how we address our health.
Speaker 1:What are some that? Thanks for saying that and I agree. I think that this, you know, the typical kind of health industry wants to kind of treat everybody the same, or or on a bell curve, as you kind of mentioned, with the kind of the ranges. But everyone's different and everybody, like we all, especially as you get into your 40s and 50s like we all have different environmental factors, stress factors, all those types of things, and and you know somebody who's my age, who has kids that are out of school, they're empty nesting and they're kind of wrapping up a corporate job I mean I have a nine year old, you know, who's just off the wall, energy, I'm coaching his basketball league. I'm, I'm, I'm living like a 29 year old dad at 49, like I better be sleeping well because you know I better show up for my kid and my family because there's no, there's no days off, right, I'm not chilling at the beach, or you know. So everyone's different. And expectations on quality of life, on like sharpness you talk about the like cognitive focus and sharpness and clarity is super important, like everyone's different, and so I think that's an important thing to talk about is like what might be great for me is not so great for somebody else and vice versa. You know, one of the other things is like I'm a, I'm a natural bodybuilder. I want to do a bodybuilding show in in, you know, towards the end of this year, and then when I turn 50, I want to compete as a 50 masters. You know, that's. Those are cool goals I've got, but I have to think about what I optimize, because I could optimize myself out of natural bodybuilding, you know, because, but but anyway. So I mean, all these things are just person to person and that's why it's really important to find somebody who gets it.
Speaker 1:Because this is one of those things where it's like I've I've talked to a lot of people who have great doctors you know, I'm going to put that in air quotes for y'all that are listening but they have no idea about, like, the new science of TRT and peptides and they're just like I don't know. Like I had a client who's 68 years old. He went in his his total T was like 320. And he's clearly, like you know, has decreased, you know, energy and all that. And the guy was like, yeah, let's test it in a couple of months.
Speaker 1:He went back, it was like 310. And he just said you're good, I think you're in the range. Let's not, let's not push it Like and I'm just like, oh my gosh, like you don't, like it's not. It's not that that guy was supposed to offer him you know, like the, you know what, what, you know what options he had. But it's just like some doctors they're signing on the conversation. It's just not because they're still. They went to law, they went to med school, when you know that stuff was bad and hormones, hormone therapy, created cancer or caused, you know, heart disease or whatever, that that story was being told back then. So you know, it's just it's a challenging time because picking the person that you talk to about this matters a ton.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I have a phrase for that and it is one size fails, all, meaning that you know what's right for one guy is often wrong for the next. And we are, we are put into this. You know generic bucket of treatment, and I think it's important to honor what you just said, and that is that you know we're each going to respond to things differently, and how do we assess what's right for you, what's right for the next guy? And I believe the answer is to test, to actually use data to understand if what you're doing is working or not. And so everything we do is how do we actually measure the outcome to that?
Speaker 2:If you're taking the supplement, if you're taking a peptide, if you're doing any kind of particular treatment, how do you assess the response? And so I love things like wearable technology, where you can now track blood sugar, you can measure stress, you can measure not just sleep quantity but sleep quality, which is so important. You can measure biologic age now, and how fast or slow your body is aging. You could do all these amazing tests to truly understand if you're on the right track or not, and most people aren't doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's new enough where you know it's still. It's still in the fringes in a sense. That's why there's a biohacking conference, which I'm actually going to be a panelist for this, here in Austin, texas, in a couple months. And it's even just the word biohack or long jib, it's one of those things that's kind of living on the fringes and starting slowly but surely becoming a part of the vernacular of our society and our culture, especially for guys and women of our age group. And so that's just. You know, that's why we do these podcasts, that's why you know you're getting out there and hitting the podcast series. You've got some free materials, a book that people can kind of access and find out more. What's one last thing? Before we kind of wrap this up and let people know how to get a hold of you or find out more about you, what's one more thing that's just kind of like if people knew about this, you know it might really help influence their decision making. You know about longevity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I'll go. I'll go big here and talk about tiny. So wait, you'll go big and talk about tiny Okay.
Speaker 2:Talk about, talk about tiny like that, yeah. So follow me for a moment here. Yeah, everyone's talking about making big, sexy moves and, you know, trying to make these massive, momentous changes, but what it comes down to is small, tiny, baby steps every day. And what I would ask the listeners are you getting better every single day? And you can look at great books. You know, bj Fogg, stanford professor, wrote tiny habits, which I love, love, love that book. It's a must read for everybody. Atomic habits, james Clear's a great book as well. They both talk about the same thing and that is that that. You know, transformation happens not from trying to have this big, massive, momentous change, but it's the consistent daily habits every day, small as successful, small as sustainable, even though it may not be sexy. And so I would emphasize how are you getting better every single day? And then I'll add on to that how are you actually tracking it to prove it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's right in line with what I preach, so thank you for that.
Speaker 2:That's all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the discipline. We want to go on the on the internet and be like I'm starting a weight loss journey, I'm going to lose 100 pounds, I'm going to sign up for this ultramarathon, like we all want to just like shout to the rooftops about this, what we're doing or what this journey we're about to go on, but it's like you know, just just do the little things every day, just just be, just get better, just get better.
Speaker 2:Every day, just get a little better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, man, that I mean. Look, this could go on. I have so many more questions, but I what I want to do with you, you know, is I want to have a part two, you know, a few months down the road, you know where. Yeah, I could pull some questions from my audience, from from a my VIP clients that I work with here in Austin, and maybe we could even do. Where do you live, by the way? Uh, southsville.
Speaker 2:Florida. Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but yeah, just do something more where we can kind of get you back on and really talk a little deeper into these conversations, cause I feel like there's a lot here, and you know nine. Nine things you said today probably triggered questions from people and this and that, so love it. So, all right, uh, in the show notes we're going to put some links, some things that they can access from you. Tell them what, what, what's going to be in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So I have a high performance health handbook. It is a simple guide that has 15 strategies and tactics that you can employ today to have more energy, have better focus, burn fat, build muscle, have better sex and live longer. All I gotta do is just text the word health as H E A L T H to the number 267 86. Again text health to 267 86. I'm also going to share with anyone who who gets that uh handbook a complimentary copy of my best selling book, mail 2.0. Mail 2.0. You got a crack in the code a limitless health and vitality. Mail 2.0.
Speaker 1:Perfect man. Uh, dr Gappen, it's been an absolute pleasure, uh, just on the personal level, because I just, you know, I was like I need to ask somebody else other than the, you know, the doctor that I was talking with. Like this is just serendipitous that you're here today, so thank you Personally.
Speaker 2:I'll take care of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's go. Yeah, awesome Thanks, tracy. This will be out next week and we'll rock and roll from there.
Speaker 2:Sounds good.
